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The Tory leadership race- that’s quite a bestiary there.

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TheDecameron said:
I saw Frankie Boyle last night. If it’s Brexit, he wants the full Brexit and to be able to see the faces of the people who voted for it when the full effects land. It’s a position I have some sympathy with.
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The problem for me is where or who will these people turn to in their misplaced anger after Brexit makes their prospects even worse and there are still immigrants coming into the country?
 
Brian said:
I doubt it. But if it is true all companies have to check whether there are anyone suitable from their own country before employing someone from overseas, then fair enough. I wasn’t aware of that. Can you explain how a company does that?

What else am I not aware of among the ‘lot’ you mention or is that just another of your snide comments?


I’m aware of work permits. I’m also aware of professional qualifcations. Blimey, 2 things I’m aware of.
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Yes I can explain, they go through a shed load of paperwork, then once that has been approved the applicant has to do a shed load of paperwork. All of which means the UK suddenly looks a lot less attractive from an investment point of view and from an immigrants point of view. Still, you will be in control.

https://www.managementtoday.co.uk/hire-workers-outside-eu/article/1359407

. "For a migrant with a wife and two children applying for a five-year visa, this equates to an additional £4,000 on top of the government processing fee. In a number of jurisdictions a TB certificate must be obtained prior to the application, and there are also English language requirements which must be satisfied by nationals of non-majority English speaking countries.

Whilst the hiring of a foreign worker from outside of the EU is complex and time consuming, if you follow the process and understand fully the requirements, it can run relatively smoothly. The most critical takeaway is to understand the timing. If you do not have a sponsor licence it can take four to six months before the migrant worker is on the ground working. Even if you do have a sponsor licence it can still take between three to four months. Knowledge is key."
 
Oh and if you work out of the EU (as I did in the USA) all those stages come with an administration charge levied by the government of the country you are wanting to be working in and also the country you are domiciled in requiring lawyers and solicitors to work on your behalf, if they get something even minor wrong, you are responsible and can be ejected, which is why employment lawyers exist to manage it for you... at a cost... which is an immediate barrier.

EDIT: @russel has expanded his post to reflect this.
 
gassor said:
The problem for me is where or who will these people turn to in their misplaced anger after Brexit makes their prospects even worse and there are still immigrants coming into the country?
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And they are brown instead of white Polish people. It's not a problem though as I couldn't care less who they turn to.
 
wacko said:
And they are brown instead of white Polish people. It's not a problem though as I couldn't care less who they turn to.
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If they turn to the far-right you would. I'm reminded of Night Rally by Elvis Costello.

 
Colin L said:
I have lived and worked in several non-EU countries. To get a residence and/or work visa you have to meet the government requirements. Typically they assess your qualifications, the country requirements for that position and the availability of local people to fill the position. Without a visa the company can’t employ you.

Your posts, confidently demonstrate a staggering lack of awareness of how the world works. Brexit writ large unfortunately.
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I’m aware of visa requirements as well, I knew I was on a roll. I’ve needed one from time to time when working overseas, so I guess that’s how I lack awareness of them.

So, not actually anyone suitable, which is what I thought.

Many of your posts confidently show a staggering arrogance. Internet hardman unfortunately.
 
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stephen bennett said:
How about 'collaborative remainers' (i.e. Hunt), rather than the rather patronising 'hard remainers' if you must use such epithets?

Brian, when we leave the EU all our right to free movement and those rights (health, property ownership, right to work etc.) will be removed.

As we know these are going to be removed, people have stopped moving to and from the UK. It matters not a jot we haven't left the EU. In the same fashion, EU funding bodies that are not allowing the UK to participate now as we will be out before the projects end and there's too much uncertainty. I have direct evidence of this happening.

This is the reality of Brexit.

Stephen
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I have no idea why you are having such an issue with the term hard-remainer. You should consider the insults put about by hard-remainers for the last 3 years aimed at anyone daring to disagree with them.

As I said earlier, the UK govt was happy to commit to rights not being changed for EU citizens in the UK, the EU decided not to reciprocate. This should tell you something.

I agree there has been, and still is too much uncertainty. There is more than one reason for that and it’s been probably the biggest issue.
 
MVV said:
The reality, brilliantly illustrated by Brian, is that the majority of leavers voted for something they literally didn't know very much about informed by the likes of the Mail banging on about immigration and straight bananas and opportunist politicians using the situation to position themselves for future leadership opportunities.
For me the greatest irony is that in the end it was just a stupid mistake that no-one dare own up to. I will never forget the look on Johnson and Gove's faces when they realised they'd burnt the house down.
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Here we go again. You have no idea how I voted but carry on bullying, it’s pretty much all you’re able to do and is expected from you.

What has been illustrated is russel was incorrect and that other hard-remainers in the gang jump to any conclusion that suits their bullying agenda. Hard-remainers have been at it for 3 years, it’s impossible to have a discussion with you people.

Those who voted leave and remain voters who support democracy accepted the outcome of the referendum, the uncertainty that is dragging us down is caused by hard-remainers, just take a look at parliament if you don’t want to acknowledge what I’m saying.

By the way, I have never read the Mail. Ever. Have you?
 
Brian said:
Here we go again. You have no idea how I voted but carry on bullying, it’s pretty much all you’re able to do and is expected from you.

What has been illustrated is russel was incorrect and that other hard-remainers in the gang jump to any conclusion that suits their bullying agenda. Hard-remainers have been at it for 3 years, it’s impossible to have a discussion with you people.

Those who voted leave and remain voters who support democracy accepted the outcome of the referendum, the uncertainty that is dragging us down is caused by hard-remainers, just take a look at parliament if you don’t want to acknowledge what I’m saying.

By the way, I have never read the Mail. Ever. Have you?
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Brian, where do you see anything like certainty from the leave camp? The clowns in the contest to see who leads us into the next stage of this process haven't got a f**kin' clue either.
 
Brian said:
Here we go again. You have no idea how I voted but carry on bullying, it’s pretty much all you’re able to do and is expected from you.

What has been illustrated is russel was incorrect and that other hard-remainers in the gang jump to any conclusion that suits their bullying agenda. Hard-remainers have been at it for 3 years, it’s impossible to have a discussion with you people.

Those who voted leave and remain voters who support democracy accepted the outcome of the referendum, the uncertainty that is dragging us down is caused by hard-remainers, just take a look at parliament if you don’t want to acknowledge what I’m saying.

By the way, I have never read the Mail. Ever. Have you?
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Brian, you are working very hard in an attempt to assign responsibility for this Brexit to anyone but those who voted for it. Relax, it looks like you’re finally going to get it before Halloween.
 
Brian said:
I have no idea why you are having such an issue with the term hard-remainer. You should consider the insults put about by hard-remainers for the last 3 years aimed at anyone daring to disagree with them.

As I said earlier, the UK govt was happy to commit to rights not being changed for EU citizens in the UK, the EU decided not to reciprocate. This should tell you something.

I agree there has been, and still is too much uncertainty. There is more than one reason for that and it’s been probably the biggest issue.
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I'm not talking about the rights of people already living in the EU/UK (though important, I agree) it's about removing those rights in the future.

I do find it insulting. I also have complained when people use insulting terms towards leave voters. When you use the term, it's obviously in an aggressive fashion.

I'll think you'll find it was the UK wanting to use current EU/UK citizens as pawns not the other way around.

Unless I have missed a similar statement from the EU you can point me to?

Stephen
 
Even those who call for no-deal can't decide what that means.

Patel thinks it's unilateral zero tariffs, Johnson imagines GATT 24 solution with an implementation period the EU will not offer. Raab wants to keep the £39 bn and walk away (whatever that means). Leadsom wants 'micro deals.' Hunt has no idea what a no-deal means.

The choice we have now is the May/Johnson bodge or leaving without any arrangements bar (I hope) remedial protections for some areas, in October.

Can our resident leave voters say which they prefer? And which is the real, actually available option being offered they voted for?

I'd rather not hear some more 'possibilities' (Tories vote their own Government down and Labour wins the election and somehow gets a better 'deal') but something based on the actual options available.

Stephen
 
stephen bennett said:
Even those who call for no-deal can't decide what that means.

Patel thinks it's unilateral zero tariffs, Johnson imagines GATT 24 solution with an implementation period the EU will not offer. Raab wants to keep the £39 bn and walk away (whatever that means). Leadsom wants 'micro deals.' Hunt has no idea what a no-deal means.

The choice we have now is the May/Johnson bodge or leaving without any arrangements bar (I hope) remedial protections for some areas, in October.

Can our resident leave voters say which they prefer? And which is the real, actually available option being offered they voted for?

I'd rather not hear some more 'possibilities' (Tories vote their own Government down and Labour wins the election and somehow gets a better 'deal') but something based on the actual options available.

Stephen
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We've no real idea what "the options available" are. They're just making it up as they go along. But none of them have any intention of taking us out with no deal.
 
Seanm said:
We've no real idea what "the options available" are. They're just making it up as they go along. But none of them have any intention of taking us out with no deal.
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If you are right then, the options available are a Johnson/May bodge or rescind A50.

Or a new PM removes a red line to two (unlikely.)

Unless we do go for one of these (see below.) May's deal was basically Swiss/Ukraine plus a CU.

Could we get a 'Canada +' sorted by October and would it help with some of the issues May's deal tried to address?

I assume not as it wasn't pursued, though some Brexiteers have said it was offered.

"Why is the Government hesitant about an agreement like the one with Canada?

Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab has said that a Canada-style deal would mean agreeing to customs controls between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, which is something the prime minister has insisted Britain could never accept."

Still, what does he know?

Davis wants a 'Canada plus, plus, plus'.

I say we go for a 'Canada plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus' 'plus ça change' —or 'EU membership' as it's more commonly called.

Mr-Barnier-believes-the-only-options-available-to-the-UK-are-Canada-or-Japan-style-deals-1200956.jpg

Stephen
 
I know I go on about this, but May's deal isn't on that chart. There are no fixed options, and what we mean by options can't be restricted to the substantive ones either, we have to include procedural options. What happens may well be quite unexpected. But if no deal and rescind A50 are being included in the list of options then we ought to include GE and PV too.
 
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