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The runners' thread...

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windhoek said:
I seem to recall reading that runners can take a break for a few days without losing much if any of their residual fitness, maybe even up to a week, but the flip side is that the effects of an injury are residual as well and without adequate time to heal, the residual effects of an injury can come back to haunt us runners just as much if not more so than the effects of the original injury. Knowing when to train and when to take a break - not to mention having the willpower to take a break when we know we should - are firey dice we must roll... but only when it's time to roll them dice!
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Yeah, I'm going to have to take that chance. I've been out the past two mornings doing hill repeats, as that seems to (a) be kinder on the groin for some reason (incline?) and (b) a good quality training session. Given the training I've done, I ought to be quite a bit further on than I currently am - maybe that's the groin injury or maybe it's sub-optimal training - so I'm looking to try to increase intensity without adding 'lazy' miles.

My plan is to run easy next week (in the South of France, lucky me ;-) and then do some speed work the following week, followed by a week of taper. No daft long runs between now and the 28th. I did 25Km at MP on Tuesday, bang on 3h59m pace as planned (including hills) - so I can definitely do it on the flat. Just have to build some more stamina and strength for 26 miles of flat running!

Once Gent is over, I have no running commitments until the end of November, and that's just a relay race (teams of four, each runs a mile, rests whilst the other three do theirs, and then runs another). Shouldn't be too hard.

This running lark is addictive :D
 
Did my last run today before the race on Sunday. A gentle bike ride to volunteer at the Parkrun 13th birthday tomorrow.
 
Good luck for Sunday :)

Made contact with a local running physio specialist. He reckons it's possible I have a stress fracture of the pelvis (!!!!) or (more likely) some kind of strain. Scary stuff. I'm sure if it were the former I'd not have managed Loch Ness at all, and wouldn't be able to be running 30 miles per week less than a fortnight later, so I'm _hoping_ it's something very minor.

New 'fancy pants' (i.e. compression underwear) have arrived, just in time for my trip to France :D Oooh la la indeed....
 
JTC said:
Yeah, I'm going to have to take that chance. I've been out the past two mornings doing hill repeats, as that seems to (a) be kinder on the groin for some reason (incline?) and (b) a good quality training session. Given the training I've done, I ought to be quite a bit further on than I currently am - maybe that's the groin injury or maybe it's sub-optimal training - so I'm looking to try to increase intensity without adding 'lazy' miles.

My plan is to run easy next week (in the South of France, lucky me ;-) and then do some speed work the following week, followed by a week of taper. No daft long runs between now and the 28th. I did 25Km at MP on Tuesday, bang on 3h59m pace as planned (including hills) - so I can definitely do it on the flat. Just have to build some more stamina and strength for 26 miles of flat running!

Once Gent is over, I have no running commitments until the end of November, and that's just a relay race (teams of four, each runs a mile, rests whilst the other three do theirs, and then runs another). Shouldn't be too hard.

This running lark is addictive :D
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The amount of running I’ve done over the last 9 years, and in fits and spurts for years before that I should be giving Mo Farah a run for his money but it doesn’t work out that way. Now my mileage is 10/15 Miles a week, some gym thrown in too. It’s enough to stay fit and manage stress. I lucked out on the VLM ballot again this year. It was a relief tbh as I’m doing a masters this year and probably couldn’t have fitted the training in. Besides that the VLM is a surprisingly solitary experience , for all the people around you the concentration on getting around it kind of prevents any conversation and after a while even the crown noise becomes annoying . I enjoyed the training much more the couple of times I’ve done it.
 
At work and typing on phone so I'll keep it short. I can't believe you're knocking out 25k long runs at race pace JTC, that's double and then some of my longest run. You really are in different league compared to where I'm at just now. Didn't realise you ran loch Ness, I'm thinking about Stirling marathon in April or if I'm not fit enough, loch Ness marathon in autumn 2018. Bummer about the pelvis (or strain) but hopefully it's not too serious.

Good luck Gareth for Sunday, hopefully you can run your socks off for a sub-sixty time. Just run like Alonso drives the McLaren and you'll be alright :)
 
I went out for my first run in three days this morning and although I planned on running somewhere between 7-9 miles, I bailed out after two and a half as my running form and pace were all over the place thanks to a sore/stiff/tight left thigh/hip/groin. I reckon I'll need to take a week or two off running as I can now hardly walk the length of myself let alone run any distance that could be called long.

My musculoskeletal fatigue/injury or whatever means I won't be running the Rannoch half-marathon next Sunday. In fact, I doubt I'll be doing any competitive running (competitive against myself) until next year as I'll probably have to start from scratch to slowly regain the levels of fitness and endurance I had before I ran the 10K last Sunday. It's all my own doing, of course; in retrospect, running 9-10K three days after a competitive 10K was a bad idea. If nothing else, I'll know better next time.

All the best for your 10K Gareth :)
 
My running is by proxy these days. Set off for Sutton Coldfield yesterday as the youngest was competing in the national road relays. Texted the team manager for the postcode and he replied that he'd emailed me the night before saying the other two had pulled out so we no longer had a team. Fortunately we were still on the M56 and turned off at next junction.
 
2 weeks to go until Chesterfield half marathon- my first and probably last! Heading out today for hopefully a 11-12 mile run which will be my last really long training run before tapering down and hopefully avoiding injury in the next 2 weeks.
 
windhoek said:
I went out for my first run in three days this morning and although I planned on running somewhere between 7-9 miles, I bailed out after two and a half as my running form and pace were all over the place thanks to a sore/stiff/tight left thigh/hip/groin. I reckon I'll need to take a week or two off running as I can now hardly walk the length of myself let alone run any distance that could be called long.

My musculoskeletal fatigue/injury or whatever means I won't be running the Rannoch half-marathon next Sunday. In fact, I doubt I'll be doing any competitive running (competitive against myself) until next year as I'll probably have to start from scratch to slowly regain the levels of fitness and endurance I had before I ran the 10K last Sunday. It's all my own doing, of course; in retrospect, running 9-10K three days after a competitive 10K was a bad idea. If nothing else, I'll know better next time.

All the best for your 10K Gareth :)
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At 48 it takes me a week to recover from a hard 5k. Two days after a hard 5k walking down stairs makes me grimace. The truth is running (hard) is very hard on your legs and you've got to take it easy on your legs while they recover - not inactvity, but very gentle exercise.

So I'll put in another plug for triathlon. A gentle bike ride is a great way to loosen up legs that are too sore to run on, and freestyle swimming is always a good fallback if the legs are sore.

It's interesting that hard cycling never results in the sort of muscle pain I get in the days following a hard running race, and even the days following a triathlon my legs are never as sore as following a competitive 5k (I think because by the run leg you're too knackered to be belting out a fast pace in the run).

My takeaway from all of this is that hard running is extremely hard on middle aged legs and you should expect a significant recovery period and not plan on any more hard runs for at least a week afterward.
 
I think you just summed up my situation perfectly: middle-aged leg on strike due to excessive workload during and after a hard race with inadequate recovery time between sessions on the road. If it gets any worse, I'll be calling my Union Rep or a lawyer for compensation in one form or another. Failing that, I'll be submitting a claim for PPI - that's PPI for Painful-Pedal Injury!
 
Ended up doing 13.4 miles in the end. I knew I could do it and now I've proved it. I can only echo comments above about middle aged legs - I'm 46 and that was agony, and tomorrow I'm going to need a wheelchair at work!
 
Since age is now working against me I have decided that brute force and ignorance will no longer cut it in my quest to improve (or even maintain) 5k running times and bike time trial times. I think I need an appliance of science to keep the young-uns off my heels (or more accurately to prevent any further humiliation i the bike time trials)

I found this paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...g-performance-in-moderately-trained-males.pdf

The TL/DR of it is that interval training is great for improving 5k (and presumably 10k) times, but the intervals should be long and somewhat hard (think 800m -1500m) rather than short and brutal (30 second / 200m flat out). Both types of interval training improved the 5k time relatively to control runners, but the long hardish intervals caused a much greater improvement than short brutal intervals (though both types of interval resulted in significant improvements versus just banging out steady miles).

This is also good news for us older ones since sprinting intervals are much more likely to lead to injury than 800-1500m intervals.

I have a target of a 5k on Thanksgiving morning, about 6 weeks away - last year's time was 19:45 - I'm going to try some of these longer intervals and will report back. Hopefully the weather will cooperate.
 
Really enjoyed the Shoreditch 10K today. Really well organised race and not too busy as it’s is the first one they have run with around 5000 entrants and they seemed to have prepared for many more. I felt pretty good for the first 5k and completed in around 29.30 which is only 25 secs off my 5k pb). Managed to keep the pace at 6 min/km for the next 2k but dropped off during k’s 8 and 9 round some twisty cobbled streets. Tried to pick up in the last k but could not quite get under the hour finishing in 1 hr 1 min 1 sec which is almost exactly 5 mins better than my last (and first) 10K in June.

Was initially a bit disappointed but actually I was probably being a bit too ambitious. My training went well but I think I will do more longer runs in the future to combat the fade in 8 and 9k. Sitting at home after a beer, a sandwich and having watching the GP I am very happy with a decent improvement and planning the next 10K.
 
I do - when I'm fit - 3 x 2 mile tempo runs now and again with five minutes break in between as part of my speedy endurance training. I haven't done the high-speed, short distance interval training runs yet but I'll give it a go when I'm fit again. Although as you suggest, I'll use them sparingly.
 
cutting42 said:
Really enjoyed the Shoreditch 10K today. Really well organised race and not too busy as it’s is the first one they have run with around 5000 entrants and they seemed to have prepared for many more. I felt pretty good for the first 5k and completed in around 29.30 which is only 25 secs off my 5k pb). Managed to keep the pace at 6 min/km for the next 2k but dropped off during k’s 8 and 9 round some twisty cobbled streets. Tried to pick up in the last k but could not quite get under the hour finishing in 1 hr 1 min 1 sec which is almost exactly 5 mins better than my last (and first) 10K in June.

Was initially a bit disappointed but actually I was probably being a bit too ambitious. My training went well but I think I will do more longer runs in the future to combat the fade in 8 and 9k. Sitting at home after a beer, a sandwich and having watching the GP I am very happy with a decent improvement and planning the next 10K.
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Congratulations Gareth, five minutes off your PB is terrific and no doubt there's more to come. 10K, a beer and GP = a great day :)
 
5 mins off a 10k is a significant improvement - congratulations. Beer tastes so much better after a good run.

Regarding the fade at 8k and 9k longer runs might not be the (optimal) answer. It could be an accumulation of lactic acid slowing you down in the last 2km in which case 800m-1500m intervals mixed with 5k steady lactate threshold runs (85% max heart rate) could bring larger gains (as well as allowing you to mix it up and avoid boredom).

The idea is to raise your lactate threshold so that you don't accumulate lactic acid to cause the performance fall off at 8km on. Longer slower runs may not be so effective for this as shorter harder runs.
 
I've watched quite a few online videos by a pro runner called Sage Canaday who suggests building weekly mileage as being the number one component of increasing race pace - even at mid-distance events such as 1500m. He also advocates lactate threshold runs and VO2Max runs, of course, but first and foremost, he suggests building up weekly mileage. He's made far too many videos for me to pick out any in particular, but here is the link to his Youtube channel.
 
sean99 said:
I found this paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...g-performance-in-moderately-trained-males.pdf

The TL/DR of it is that interval training is great for improving 5k (and presumably 10k) times, but the intervals should be long and somewhat hard (think 800m -1500m) rather than short and brutal (30 second / 200m flat out). Both types of interval training improved the 5k time relatively to control runners, but the long hardish intervals caused a much greater improvement than short brutal intervals (though both types of interval resulted in significant improvements versus just banging out steady miles).
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I agree with this approach and would say the best way to achieve it and improve your times is to join a Club, especially as they all provide coaching, to a greater or lesser extent. This will involve a tailored program including interval sessions with other members in groups of relatively similar ability. You will be able to manage much harder intervals when in a group compared to doing them on your own. When I was training a typical winter week would be:
Mon - longish steady run.
Tues - club interval session based on 1kmish reps., Atlantic St in Altrincham being a favoured spot. In summer it would be shorter, faster reps on Mcr University fields.
Weds - gym weights session
Thurs - shorter club interval session varying from 150 to 600m depending on the cycle...followed by a couple of pints! In summer it would be sprint sessions with reps as short as 75m
Fri - rest
Sat - club interval session on grass, similar distances to Tues session.
Sun - long slow steady run
A few months of this sort of gently competitive training will have a dramatic effect on pb's. The social side can be pretty good too.
 
Absolutely Weekender - I mentioned ‘join a club’ a few pages back. A lot of this stuff is pretty well established and a good club will have a framework of weekly sessions and advice on pregression, injury avoidance and free coaching. I also like a lot of the local events and some of these you can only do through a club. Racing then becomes more integrated with a life of running for fun and fitness. If there’s a race coming up you tweak your training to peak, taper, race then recover. Any coach or good running book has pretty solid advice on this, for improvers and quickies alike.
 
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