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The runners' thread...

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Just starting out on the running thing - years of home working has taken its toll on my weight so time to sort it out. Currently doing slow 5ks on the treadmill at the gym (about 38 mins at the moment). Both times I tried couch to 5k running outdoors I ended up with shin splints only 2 weeks in, seem to be avoiding that thankfully, although have long term achilles and calf issues so trying not to overdo it. Any advice gratefully received!
 
James I’d try varying the pace. Maybe a run -walk schedule to get you used to running a little quicker with recovery (walking) intervals for the heart rate to return for the next effort. Anything is possible but eg 2 mins running and 3 mins brisk walk, repeated? You may find 5k like this not much slower than your current training pace but it will probably be a good way to get stronger and more efficient. And you’ll still be calorie-burning in the walk phases. Over time you’ll need less recovery time but this type of interval training is used at all levels. Does your treadmill have this sort of thing programmed in?
 
Thanks Ian, I was wondering about interval training and on a couple of the "runs" I've in parts manually done that, upping the pace for a couple of minutes and then dropping back to a fast walk for a minute or so, repeat for 10 mins. I've only done a few 5ks over the past 2 weeks - current routine is 5min warm up walk on 5.5km/h with a bit of that uphill, then jog on about 8.3km/h for the rest, unless I feel inclined to go for the intervals. Not sure if the machines in the gym have that - I'll take a look. I'm just about to head down the gym for a lunchtime burst actually - got invited out for a pint tonight which was messing with my schedule. I was even tempted to blow out the pint so I didn't miss the gym. Must be going senile.
 
James Evans said:
Just starting out on the running thing - years of home working has taken its toll on my weight so time to sort it out. Currently doing slow 5ks on the treadmill at the gym (about 38 mins at the moment). Both times I tried couch to 5k running outdoors I ended up with shin splints only 2 weeks in, seem to be avoiding that thankfully, although have long term achilles and calf issues so trying not to overdo it. Any advice gratefully received!
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Triathlon. (But definitely not ironman which is a recipe for over use injury and divorce). Seriously - it may take a year before you're ready for a sprint triathlon but the combination of having to train 3 disciplines makes you fitter overall and greatly reduces the chances of stress injuries. See if you can find a local triathlon club (I used to be a member of fantastic one in Cambridge UK) that organizes regular swims, runs and bike rides - they're not all iron-men - there's a lot of middle aged folk getting back into shape.

A typical sprint triathlon is 400-800m swim, 10-15 miles bike and a 5k run.

Also Parkrun - not sure if it has been mentioned - if you live near a parkrun that's an excellent way of getting a regular run with company.
 
Blimey, triathlon, steady on Sean. Let me find my feet first :)

My wife's done the Birkenhead park parkrun a few times, and Delamere forest is not too far, both good options when I get the confidence to face the outside world.

Anyway, back from Gym, stepped the overall pace up today and knocked 2.10 off my previous best, so 5k in 35.30.
 
Yes to Parkrun - free, plentiful (in the UK at least), friendly, and easy to enter (once you've registered and have a bar code, just turn up on the day). The results IT is really good too (pb's , age grading etc). As far as I know they are all 5k and very inclusive.

I see quite a few kids at my local. They always seem to tear off like Usain Bolt at the start.
 
James - with times like that you'd be way inside the slower runners for Parkruns - I'd definitely have a go soon, even just to put down a marker for yourself.
 
I have posted about Parkruns before but they have been brilliant for me. Like you I started on treadmills but did my first Parkrun in Dec 2016 and have not missed many since. It is a great way to build up confidence and to get your times down. My first parkrun was around 33 mins and your time would be around 20 mins faster that the last person at last Saturdays run. Go for it, it is a great atmosphere and the feeling starting the weekend with a run is lovely.
 
You see more cheering and encouragement for slower runners than for the quickies. Go for it, and enjoy the run without bothering too much about your time, at least for now.
 
windhoek said:
I went back out for a run this morning and took my metronome with me to see if I could gauge my typical SPM and then to follow a set pace for two laps of my 1.5 miles doorstep loop (the actual distance could be plus or minus 20%, I just don't know the exact distance).

It looks like I've been running at somewhere between 176-178SPM as I tried running at 174SPM but it just felt too slow, whereas I know from running at 180SPM yesterday (and this morning), 180SPM requires more effort than usual. So my best guess is I've been running at somewhere between 176-178SPM.

I didn't get to time the loop at 180SPM yesterday as I didn't press the start button on my watch properly, but I managed to time both laps this morning, which I ran as consecutive laps without breaking cadence. The time of the first lap was 12.58.xx while the total time was 25.57.19, and when you subtract the time of the first lap from the overall time, it means I ran the second lap in almost exactly the same time - almost certainly within half a second. An astonishing outcome over that time and distance. Precision pacing at its most precise (figuratively speaking, as it could have been more precise).

I'm sure pros can do that level of precision or better without a metronome, but I ain't a pro and ain't ever likely to become a pro, so using a metronome on training runs is a no-brainer for the immediate future.

Incidentally, 180SPM at my standard stride length felt fast and although I could probably sustain it over 10K during a race, I might need to spend some time training a 178SPM first, and only once I've consolidated running at that cadence will I then increase my cadence to 180SPM. I'll eventually practice running at higher cadences, but I'd like to become comfortable at 180SPM first to make sure I don't injure myself.
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I never really thought about cadence and just run as I feel. But I just measured it over a run this afternoon - 40 mins hilly / off road, just under 8km / 5 miles, at 157 SPM (by IPhone / EasyTrails). I am just a week of getting back into running after months off so maybe I will find my cadence increasing as I get fitter. Not sure if its something I want to force is it? Maybe I'll get a metronome on the phone for fun.

Not sure how the 180SPM is linked to a particular pace / effort? Does it vary with physique eg leg length? I think I read somewhere or heard from a coach that cadence varies little between runners but stride length increases with training / efficiency.

Always amazes me how the simplest most natural activity is so subtle complex and rewarding. I have a copy of to Tim Noakes' Lore of Running book with over 900 pages about how running works, and I'm sure that only scratches the surface.
 
It might well be that 180SPM will always be a fastish cadence for me no matter how much I improve my technique as I'm only 5 feet 7 in height and my legs aren't disproportionately long - I hope! As to the science of why it's an optimal number - or at least, the minimum ideal cadence - I couldn't say. But the word on the web and from eminent coaches is that 180SPM is a good cadence to run at (terrain and other factors notwithstanding) for long distance running while sprinters and medium distance runners might well go above that. 100m sprinters such as Tyson Gay, for example, run with a much faster cadence; somewhere in the high 200s, iirc. But for us long distance runners, 180SPM is where it's at, apparently.

As you say it's easy to run but to run well over long distances and at a relatively competitive pace without getting injured is another thing altogether.

p.s. I enjoyed reading your earlier posts. To be a multiple marathon runner is an extraordinary achievement - especially compared to my modest beginner's ambition of running 10K in under 60 minutes. Well done!
 
Here's a question for anyone who's tackled a 10K, or any race with the aim of putting in a maximum effort-performance: if you've been allocated to a starting position that's slower than your actual pace, should you start at the back of the slower group and overtake when it inevitably thins out, or should you start at the very front of the slower group so you can merge with the faster group asap?

I signed up thinking my time might be closer to 90 minutes than 60 and now find myself allocated to set off in the slowest group, but now that I've got a bit fitter and a bit faster, I'm 90% sure I can crack 60 minutes. Heck, the audacious part of me thinks I just might crack 50 minutes!
 
You might as well shoot yourself as run 10K in 90 minutes. You are barely walking! Personally I'd start in the slower group because most people go off too fast anyhow.
 
In every race I've ever entered I started towards the front. If there's a lot of runners and you start at the back, you'll be struggling to overtake people for a while..but the downside is you may then be getting overtaken relentlessly for the rest of the race, which can be demoralizing.
Get over it and get used to it is what I say! Try to keep up with the overtakers and use them as pacers.

The half I did on Sunday I started close to the front. The 90min pacer overtook me at about 3 miles...which means I was going too fast at the start, but no crowding or hold ups and I kept up with him for a little while at least!

I think the normal rule applies - play with people better than you and you'll improve!
 
I try to start as close to the front of my group as possible (which is pretty close to the front since I run sub 20 minutes 5ks - I only run shorter distances). However the problem with the shorter distance races is that a large percentage of the field (10-20%) races off at 6 minute mile pace for the first half mile or less, before collapsing back to 9+ minute mile pace so it's almost inevitable that you'll have to thread your way through other runners at some point.

Start as close to the front of your group as you can, don't get caught up in the adrenalie fueled charge away from the start - run your usual pace even though it can feel as if you're standing still, and then just be resigned to patiently pick your way past the many who set off (way) too fast.
 
robs said:
In every race I've ever entered I started towards the front. If there's a lot of runners and you start at the back, you'll be struggling to overtake people for a while..but the downside is you may then be getting overtaken relentlessly for the rest of the race, which can be demoralizing.
Get over it and get used to it is what I say! Try to keep up with the overtakers and use them as pacers.

The half I did on Sunday I started close to the front. The 90min pacer overtook me at about 3 miles...which means I was going too fast at the start, but no crowding or hold ups and I kept up with him for a little while at least!

I think the normal rule applies - play with people better than you and you'll improve!
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This is a very odd post. How many races have you done?
 
At the back of the slower group you risk getting held up but if there’s chip timing you could maybe hang back and cross the line once the shuffling has finished. Or start at the front of your allocated group but be VERY controlled about your pace. Going off too fast is an easy mistake to make especially as you’re an improving runner full of enthusiasm. Try for an even or even negative split. Aim to feel comfortable, fresh and full of running at and even beyond half way and push on from there. Alongside your training, also visualise this. For longer races and also 10k, you may even feel you’re gently putting the brakes on - holding back against the leash. Later in the race you can release and run naturally fast.

Ian
 
So I’d do the opposite of what robs suggests! I did once try his strategy and it was my worst run ever and I hated it. It’s a sport for all though. Just as a matter of manners I think it’s not really cool to knowingly position yourself in the way of much faster runners. They’ll fly past of course but it’s just a bit uncouth.
 
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