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The Rise of the Far Right

Tony L said:
More on the ‘National Conservative’ far-right movement the Tories are associating themselves with (Guardian). I’m still going with ‘Nat-C’ as the abbreviation. Fascism by the front door. The list of speakers a page or two earlier on this thread highlights just how far-right this movement is. The very worst the Tory Party has to offer seasoned with a few racists and conspiracy theorists from the Tories dark-money funded GB News propaganda outlet.
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“4. God and Public Religion. No nation can long endure without humility and gratitude before God and fear of his judgment that are found in authentic religious tradition. For millennia, the Bible has been our surest guide, nourishing a fitting orientation toward God, to the political traditions of the nation, to public morals, to the defense of the weak, and to the recognition of things rightly regarded as sacred. The Bible should be read as the first among the sources of a shared Western civilization in schools and universities”​
 

Excellent piece by journalist George Monbiot about the far-right Tory government’s ongoing ongoing attacks on our most basic human rights and civil liberties. Rights generations have fought and even died for. This documents another real push towards an authoritarian state.

We are staring fascism right in the face. It is here now and they are step by step removing our ability to fight it.
 
Tony L said:
Excellent piece by journalist George Monbiot about the far-right Tory government’s ongoing ongoing attacks on our most basic human rights and civil liberties. Rights generations have fought and even died for. This documents another real push towards an authoritarian state.

We are staring fascism right in the face. It is here now and they are step by step removing our ability to fight it.
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Yes, I remember a decade ago, threads when discussion would to point to fascist tendencies of the government, ukip etc., half hoping we might be imagining it. Now it’s out in broad daylight, no longer just from the mouths of Farage, Tommy Robinson and a handful of Tory peers but official government policy and being driven to extremes by elements the established press.

The alarming thing is that the leader of the official opposition isn’t challenging it head on, he’s riding on elements of it to win election. The function of healthy representative democracy isn’t to amplify populist dross and prejudice, it’s to challenge it, to use disagreement constructively. The only remaining question is how much lower can they go? You would have hoped Johnson was it.
 
Tony L said:
More on the ‘National Conservative’ far-right movement the Tories are associating themselves with (Guardian). I’m still going with ‘Nat-C’ as the abbreviation. Fascism by the front door. The list of speakers a page or two earlier on this thread highlights just how far-right this movement is. The very worst the Tory Party has to offer seasoned with a few racists and conspiracy theorists from the Tories dark-money funded GB News propaganda outlet.
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From the conference blurb:

“We see the tradition of independent, self-governed nations as the foundation for restoring a proper public orientation toward patriotism and courage, honor [sic] and loyalty, religion and wisdom, congregation and family, man and woman, the sabbath and the sacred, and reason and justice.
We are conservatives because we see such virtues as essential to sustaining our civilization. We see such a restoration as the prerequisite for recovering and maintaining our freedom, security, and prosperity.”

It's here. This is terrifying.

EDIT: I mean, it's always been around, but now Cabinet Ministers are keynote speakers.
 
Have been thinking about the rise of fascism and the belief in free speech, and wondering if the former can be fought without totally trashing the latter (and especially in academic environments).

In the past, I have tried to express my support of the Trans community. I hate bullying in all its forms. But there’s something about the attempt to ban that repugnant, anti-Trans movie in Scotland that concerns me.

First of all, unless there is clear evidence of hate speech that incites violence, I prefer to see all views expressed on campus regardless of how demented or crazy. Only by listening, studying and understanding can an effective defense against bigotry be developed. Campuses are where we are supposed develop a new generation of leaders. I don’t see how limiting what can be studied helps with that mission. I guess my point is that banning can be bad, regardless of who does it.

I do not believe that showing that movie on campus would have recruited any new followers. Anyone who wants to can self-radicalize online. I think it would have been much better to provide adequate security and show it. Would much rather see that crap in full daylight, where it can be effectively ridiculed and, hopefully, the minds of supporters changed.
 
Hook said:
First of all, unless there is clear evidence of hate speech that incites violence, I prefer to see all views expressed on campus regardless of how demented or crazy. Only by listening, studying and understanding can an effective defense against bigotry be developed. Campuses are where we are supposed develop a new generation of leaders. I don’t see how limiting what can be studied helps with that mission. I guess my point is that banning can be bad, regardless of who does it.
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I don’t know the full story here, only that students protested about a far-right hate-speech propaganda movie being shown. This is absolutely nothing new, students have protested against such things throughout time and student unions have defined their own policy. My generation’s targets were South African apartheid, Thatcher etc (not that I was ever a student, though I very much moved in the same circles). I think it is fine. The university can sort it out and I view it 100% as their decision, just how what I platform here is mine.

A venue deciding to show something or not, responding to protest etc is never ‘banning’. A ban can only be done at nation or state level, e.g. DeSantis banning books in Florida. That is banning. This is not the same at all, it is end-user pressure. It is just people expressing a view on hateful material. The film is still legal. Protest should always be legal too.
 
Hook said:
In the past, I have tried to express my support of the Trans community. I hate bullying in all its forms. But there’s something about the attempt to ban that repugnant, anti-Trans movie in Scotland that concerns me.

First of all, unless there is clear evidence of hate speech that incites violence, I prefer to see all views expressed on campus regardless of how demented or crazy. Only by listening, studying and understanding can an effective defense against bigotry be developed. Campuses are where we are supposed develop a new generation of leaders. I don’t see how limiting what can be studied helps with that mission. I guess my point is that banning can be bad, regardless of who does it.

I do not believe that showing that movie on campus would have recruited any new followers. Anyone who wants to can self-radicalize online. I think it would have been much better to provide adequate security and show it. Would much rather see that crap in full daylight, where it can be effectively ridiculed and, hopefully, the minds of supporters changed.
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Would you feel the same way if the film was promoting homophobia or racism?
 
Hook said:
First of all, unless there is clear evidence of hate speech that incites violence, I prefer to see all views expressed on campus regardless of how demented or crazy. Only by listening, studying and understanding can an effective defense against bigotry be developed. Campuses are where we are supposed develop a new generation of leaders. I don’t see how limiting what can be studied helps with that mission. I guess my point is that banning can be bad, regardless of who does.
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Agreed. No Platform was historically enacted against fascism, and fascism only. No Platforming gender critical feminists, or Toby Young or Kathleen Stock or whoever is silly, and can be counter productive. But that’s the nature of student politics.

The problems come when fascists invariably attach themselves to and organise around such issues, eg. Turning Point U.K. with immigration and asylum seekers, Posey Parker around trans issues. In those instances it is absolutely right to oppose their poison.
 
paulfromcamden said:
Would you feel the same way if the film was promoting homophobia or racism?
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Yes, of course. How else do we educate the next generation if we don’t show them how wrong bigotry is?

Here in the US, the GOP is trying to bury education about the history of slavery. This is something I oppose very strongly.
 
Hook said:
Yes, of course. How else do we educate the next generation if we don’t show them how wrong bigotry is?

Here in the US, the GOP is trying to bury education about the history of slavery. This is something I oppose very strongly.
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But I don't really see the equivalence in educating people about slavery (good thing!) and a film promoting transphobia (bad thing!)
 
paulfromcamden said:
But I don't really see the equivalence in educating people about slavery (good thing!) and a film promoting transphobia (bad thing!)
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I can offer an example from my misspent college days. I recall a history class that involved watching an old silent movie called Birth of a Nation. Not sure if you know the film, but basically, it was a recruiting film for the KKK!

As far as I know, none of my old classmates became KKK members by viewing it, but it was a valuable lesson in learning how the US changed in the first part of the 20th century. This was the same time period during which many southern cities erected statues of confederate leaders.
 
Finnegan said:
Agreed. No Platform was historically enacted against fascism, and fascism only. No Platforming gender critical feminists, or Toby Young or Kathleen Stock or whoever is silly, and can be counter productive. But that’s the nature of student politics.

The problems come when fascists invariably attach themselves to and organise around such issues, eg. Turning Point U.K. with immigration and asylum seekers, Posey Parker around trans issues. In those instances it is absolutely right to oppose their poison.
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You make a good point. When fascists are denied a direct platform, they find other ways to sir the shit.
 
There are obviously evils that stem from deceptive hate-inciting propaganda. Depending on access, propagandists can create harmful political movements, that lead to victimization, oppression, and indeed suffering and death. The Rwanda genocide was enabled by hate radio.

There are of course likewise evils that stem from limiting free speech. The ability of people, for example, to recognize and resist propaganda depends, ultimately, on free expression in opposition. There is thus a real dilemma in trying to craft policy that prevents the harms of propaganda but does not threaten the good of free speech.
 
Hook said:
I can offer an example from my misspent college days. I recall a history class that involved watching an old silent movie called Birth of a Nation. Not sure if you know the film, but basically, it was a recruiting film for the KKK!

As far as I know, none of my old classmates became KKK members by viewing it, but it was a valuable lesson in learning how the US changed in the first part of the 20th century. This was the same time period during which many southern cities erected statues of confederate leaders.
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I've only ever seen clips but I'm well aware of the content - not exactly Griffiths' finest hour!

Is watching a silent film (now well over 100 years old!) quite the same thing though? It's already history itself so you're viewing it in that context.

Adult Human Female was made last year. Would you support the screening of, say, a current neo-nazi film that was Islamophobic? Or a film promoting Islamic terrorism?

My point is I'm in favour of academic discussion and freedom of speech but we all have things that we find beyond the pale. Lines that shouldn't be crossed.
 
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