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The end of the student maintenance grant.

cooky1257

cooky1257

pfm Member
The Indy and the Beeb are now carrying this as a likely part of Gideon's Budget.

I'm left speechless, I look at my boy who's very bright and has just worked so hard for his A levels, driven with ambition to study for an MSc in Chemistry, the extra year was already pushing it it terms of the size of the debt(+£14k over BSc) and is at a stroke looking at the price of that degree increasing by another £10k.
He is now thinking of abandoning his dream as, if it happens, it pushes him too far into debt.

I hate these bastards with a passion.
 
Personally I blame the Lib Dems and the Scottish Nationalists. The Scottish Nationalists made sure that Scottish degrees were fully funded for Scottish students, presumably at the expense of British taxpayers, and the Lib Dems failed to protect the English students from the increasing cost of tuition.

I guess the Tories will eventually take England more towards the USA style system where only the ivy league people can afford university and health care.

Maybe it is time to move to Scotland ;-)
 
This will deter the children of less affluent parents going to Uni. That's not only selfish, in purely pragmatic terms it's pig-ignorant to deliberately miss out on all of that potential talent.

And even if it didn't deter less affluent kids going to Uni - which it will - it will give them a further disadvantage (or rich kids a head start) when they get into adult life. So it's win-win for the tories.

They deserve to be hated!
 
Subjects that we need students to do should be encouraged with better funding than others. And yes that will mean someone making judgements as to which. The point made above about missing the best talent due to financial uncertainty and difficulty, is highly valid.

If you want to do say, Divinity, bleeding well pay for it or get your church to. If you want to do a relatively easy subject, taught and marked by ideologically skewed w*****s, to get letters after your name and pretend it's the same as a difficult subject, then you pay for it if you think it's worth it.

Also, non degree courses and supported apprenticeships should be encouraged and funded where of national usefulness.
This is an example of good state spending, worth taking my taxes for. Relevant education is like part of the country's infrastructure.

But remember our indebtedness and the need to make big cuts. We can't go on in denial.
So targeting and selection is needed here.
 
deanf said:
This will deter the children of less affluent parents going to Uni. That's not only selfish, in purely pragmatic terms it's pig-ignorant to deliberately miss out on all of that potential talent.

And even if it didn't deter less affluent kids going to Uni - which it will - it will give them a further disadvantage (or rich kids a head start) when they get into adult life. So it's win-win for the tories.

They deserve to be hated!
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Its not yet certain but the indications are is that the cut off for the grant will drop from £42K to £25K. So those with parents earning 25K or less will still get a grant. However both parents incomes are taken into account.

We'll have to wait and see.

Cheers,

DV
 
I think it got to a point where every tom, dick, and harry went to uni - and some of the courses ffs... total waste of time, we need to revert back to the 70s etc where only the brightest kids went to uni... and of course rich foreigners
 
cooky1257 said:
The Indy and the Beeb are now carrying this as a likely part of Gideon's Budget.

I'm left speechless, I look at my boy who's very bright and has just worked so hard for his A levels, driven with ambition to study for an MSc in Chemistry, the extra year was already pushing it it terms of the size of the debt(+£14k over BSc) and is at a stroke looking at the price of that degree increasing by another £10k.
He is now thinking of abandoning his dream as, if it happens, it pushes him too far into debt.

I hate these bastards with a passion.
Click to expand...

Unless times have changed dramatically I don't see the purpose of an MSc. It was seen when I was at Uni as something taken by those who didn't get a 'good' degree. If he gets a first then the door is open for a PhD but if as more likely a 2.x then better to get out into the work place and get some experience under his belt and money in his pocket.

Cheers,

DV
 
Mr Cat said:
I think it got to a point where every tom, dick, and harry went to uni - and some of the courses ffs... total waste of time, we need to revert back to the 70s etc where only the brightest kids went to uni... and of course rich foreigners
Click to expand...

I went in 1978. The grant back then was means tested and my dad was on a reasonable salary as a senior engineer in a power station so I just got the minimum which he topped up to the full £1400 (if I recall correctly) out of which I had to pay for accomodation, food, books and local transportation. However the eduction itself was free so I didn't have to get a loan to pay for that.

I reckon the 1970s grant package and free eduction was too generous, and the only reason a small number went to uni was because there weren't many of them. These days every Poly is now a Uni ...
 
Darth Vader said:
Unless times have changed dramatically I don't see the purpose of an MSc. It was seen when I was at Uni as something taken by those who didn't get a 'good' degree. If he gets a first then the door is open for a PhD but if as more likely a 2.x then better to get out into the work place and get some experience under his belt and money in his pocket.

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

Times have changed.
 
cliffpatte said:
I went in 1978. The grant back then was means tested and my dad was on a reasonable salary as a senior engineer in a power station so I just got the minimum which he topped up to the full £1400 (if I recall correctly) out of which I had to pay for accomodation, food, books and local transportation. However the eduction itself was free so I didn't have to get a loan to pay for that.

I reckon the 1970s grant package and free eduction was too generous, and the only reason a small number went to uni was because there weren't many of them. These days every Poly is now a Uni ...
Click to expand...

I went to Uni in 1963 and the grant was means tested. However since I left school at 15 and worked for more than three years my parents income (which wasn't that much) wasn't taken into consideration so I got a full grant of around £310 pa. I supplemented that with working during the holidays and some part time bar work. Just checked and that grant is worth around £6k in todays money!

Cheers,

DV
 
Darth Vader said:
Unless times have changed dramatically I don't see the purpose of an MSc. It was seen when I was at Uni as something taken by those who didn't get a 'good' degree. If he gets a first then the door is open for a PhD but if as more likely a 2.x then better to get out into the work place and get some experience under his belt and money in his pocket.

Cheers,

DV
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I doubt someone without a Masters would get onto a PhD in one of the top 10 (even top 20) Unis. Too much competition from applicants with Masters.
 
A First pass today would only get you a 2:2 30 years ago. Universities have dumbed down including the Russell group.
 
Darth Vader said:
Unless times have changed dramatically I don't see the purpose of an MSc. It was seen when I was at Uni as something taken by those who didn't get a 'good' degree. If he gets a first then the door is open for a PhD but if as more likely a 2.x then better to get out into the work place and get some experience under his belt and money in his pocket.

Cheers,

DV
Click to expand...

I did an MSC and it was highly beneficial to my career, critical in fact. I think you're assuming that everyone pursues an MSC in the same subject as their first degree; mine wasn't as there was no equivalent first degree course in my MSC subject at the time.

CHE

PS I got a full grant for both BSC and MSC courses and it helped fund my first Hi-Fi.
 
Rodrat said:
A First pass today would only get you a 2:2 30 years ago. Universities have dumbed down including the Russell group.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced by this argument.

I've seen recent GCSE papers, and yes they seem easier than 1976 O Levels to me, but are you really saying that a Manchester Uni Computer Science First could be obtained by someone who got a 2:2 in 1981?
 
Mr Cat said:
I think it got to a point where every tom, dick, and harry went to uni - and some of the courses ffs... total waste of time, we need to revert back to the 70s etc where only the brightest kids went to uni... and of course rich foreigners
Click to expand...

I agree and it should be brightest not richest.

The A Level pass threshold should revert to 60% of students per subject as it was when I took mine not the current 99%.
 
cliffpatte said:
I'm not convinced by this argument.

I've seen recent GCSE papers, and yes they seem easier than 1976 O Levels to me, but are you really saying that a Manchester Uni Computer Science First could be obtained by someone who got a 2:2 in 1981?
Click to expand...

yep, this is an old argument that doesn't convince me either...

more people are completing marathons now too - does that make them easier?
 
CHE said:
I did an MSC and it was highly beneficial to my career, critical in fact. I think you're assuming that everyone pursues an MSC in the same subject as their first degree; mine wasn't as there was no equivalent first degree course in my MSC subject at the time.

CHE

PS I got a full grant for both BSC and MSC courses and it helped fund my first Hi-Fi.
Click to expand...

You are correct. In replying to the OP the assumption was BSc then MSc both in Chemistry the same discipline that I read at Uni. What was interesting though was that maybe 50% of the undergrads on the course I was taking were planning to go into management.

Cheers,

DV
 
Well all of this should be of no surprise to those who voted for them,and the rest of the majority of the country that didn't, just listening to part of Osborn's speech there is a lot more of this sort of thing to come, as usual and true to form, guess who they are looking after?

Its time to get our tin hats on as there is a lot more suffering for the least able to afford and not just financially, to come. .
Last week it was released that several MP's including Duncan Smith have had their ( Free ) Westminster Credit Cards revoked for spending over the limit on unsubstantiated spending.

Still a case of them being totally oblivious to the Public concerns regarding MP's expenses.
Again with this lot it's still a case of " Pull up the ladder I'm alright Jack"
Sadly we reap that which we sow.
oldie
 
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