The end of the student maintenance grant.

[gintonic]

Unless times have changed dramatically I don't see the purpose of an MSc. It was seen when I was at Uni as something taken by those who didn't get a 'good' degree. If he gets a first then the door is open for a PhD but if as more likely a 2.x then better to get out into the work place and get some experience under his belt and money in his pocket.

Cheers,

DV

I work in HE, and this varies hugely from sector to sector. MSc's in some areas have a tendency to veer towards research training with a view to getting a place on a PhD programme. Friend of mine works in a bio-science sector where a PhD is the key to getting any job better than a lab technician.

A First pass today would only get you a 2:2 30 years ago. Universities have dumbed down including the Russell group.

Not entirely sure about that, I have been an external examiner at a number of HEIs (include Russell Group, red bricks and post-92) over the last 20 odd years and what I would say is that assessments are very different but not necessarily easier.

It is disappointing but unsurprising that central government funding is being squeezed. There are a surprising number of sources of funding for courses and students, that do not rely on government funding.

 

[hc25036]

A First pass today would only get you a 2:2 30 years ago. Universities have dumbed down including the Russell group.

I can refute that. My son took the same course at the same university as me - 27 years apart. I'd say his course was tougher than mine, even taking into account advances in the subject (biochemistry) and in information technology (the first lab computer arrived during my 3rd year!).

 

[Brian]

Personally I blame the Lib Dems and the Scottish Nationalists. The Scottish Nationalists made sure that Scottish degrees were fully funded for Scottish students, presumably at the expense of British taxpayers, and the Lib Dems failed to protect the English students from the increasing cost of tuition.

I guess the Tories will eventually take England more towards the USA style system where only the ivy league people can afford university and health care.

Maybe it is time to move to Scotland ;-)

Cliff,

Since this is a tory policy and there is now no coalition poodle to blame, it's true to say the blame for it rests with the tories exclusively.

 

[gassor]

Personally I blame the Lib Dems and the Scottish Nationalists. The Scottish Nationalists made sure that Scottish degrees were fully funded for Scottish students, presumably at the expense of British taxpayers,

Deary me, the SNP did not get extra money for funding students up here. The SNP simply had different spending priorities to the Westminister govt. The govt could have gone for free tuition fees, but that was not a high priority. Can't blame the Scot Nats for the Tory/Lib dems priorities.

 

[Whaleblue]

Sadly we reap that which we sow.

"A National Living Wage, starting at £7.20 and rising to £9 an hour by 2020, replaces the £6.50 minimum wage."

Sounds like a good move.

 

[denni55]

cliffpatte SNP = BAAAD..........ye cannae help yersel!

 

[denni55]

Deary me, the SNP did not get extra money for funding students up here. The SNP simply had different spending priorities to the Westminister govt. The govt could have gone for free tuition fees, but that was not a high priority. Can't blame the Scot Nats for the Tory/Lib dems priorities.

what he said +

 

[Darth Vader]

"A National Living Wage, starting at £7.20 and rising to £9 an hour by 2020, replaces the £6.50 minimum wage."

Sounds like a good move.

Wrong thread but an 11% rise (to £7.20) in wages might be self inflationary. Whilst the big boys can take it on the chin the small enterprises/businesses that employ much of the population will struggle and may only survive if they increase the price of their products/goods/services. Or they may go to the wall anyway and put their staff out of work. A rock and a hard place comes to mind.

Cheers,

DV

 

[Mullardman]

The rise is going to take 5 years to filter through.

Any firm which cannot afford to pay staff something exceeding poverty wages should not be employing said staff.

Struggling little employers who persistently and cynically avoid paying decent wages include Tesco etc.

Any company, large, or small, that pays multi million pound salaries, bonusses and perks to it's bosses can, by definition afford to pay more to its lower paid staff.

Mull

 

[Cesare]

I'm not convinced by this argument.

I've seen recent GCSE papers, and yes they seem easier than 1976 O Levels to me, but are you really saying that a Manchester Uni Computer Science First could be obtained by someone who got a 2:2 in 1981?

In the last 5 years of interviewing recent computer science grads from top universities you'd be surprised at the number of people coming out with 1st class degrees who can't program.

When I mean they can't program, i'm specifically saying they can't answer questions like 'in a language of your choice, write a program to print all prime numbers below 1000'.

This surprises me, but then I guess the subject is much wider and some people concentrate on other aspects rather than actually programming computers. Personally i'm not sure why you would study computer science if you weren't interested in programming, but hey, we're all different.

 

[simeon]

Subjects that we need students to do should be encouraged with better funding than others. And yes that will mean someone making judgements as to which. The point made above about missing the best talent due to financial uncertainty and difficulty, is highly valid.

If you want to do say, Divinity, bleeding well pay for it or get your church to. If you want to do a relatively easy subject, taught and marked by ideologically skewed w*****s, to get letters after your name and pretend it's the same as a difficult subject, then you pay for it if you think it's worth it.

Also, non degree courses and supported apprenticeships should be encouraged and funded where of national usefulness.
This is an example of good state spending, worth taking my taxes for. Relevant education is like part of the country's infrastructure.

But remember our indebtedness and the need to make big cuts. We can't go on in denial.
So targeting and selection is needed here.

I would like to agree with that, but.... I'm not sure the State is best placed to decide what is worth and not worth. An example: In the early 70's I applied to universities to do electronics. There were only four universities that offered such a course. Four. In the 70's.

 

[Darth Vader]

In the last 5 years of interviewing recent computer science grads from top universities you'd be surprised at the number of people coming out with 1st class degrees who can't program.

When I mean they can't program, i'm specifically saying they can't answer questions like 'in a language of your choice, write a program to print all prime numbers below 1000'.

This surprises me, but then I guess the subject is much wider and some people concentrate on other aspects rather than actually programming computers. Personally i'm not sure why you would study computer science if you weren't interested in programming, but hey, we're all different.

Thats got absolutely nothing to do with writing a computer program and I'd guess your exposure is very limited indeed.

I am self taught and programmed on the 'bare metal' in first machine code then in symbolic assembler through many languages some of which you have probably never heard nor met. I did this commercially and rose to Principal Consultant and taught experienced programmers through systems engineers and even Sales.

I bowed out of programming when Kernighan and Ritchie dominated the game as its a terrible language and moved into what was then a much better paid area - Comms and never looked back. I still have their book and its used for dart practice.

At the time I could take a bright person male or female who had no previous knowledge of computers and turn them into good programmers and systems analysts. Its all about logic and eff all to do with your stupid maths question.

Cheers,

DV

 

[Darth Vader]

I would like to agree with that, but.... I'm not sure the State is best placed to decide what is worth and not worth. An example: In the early 70's I applied to universities to do electronics. There were only four universities that offered such a course. Four. In the 70's.

Thats nothing new. In the late '60s I wanted to take a Graduate Certificate in Education for Higher Education teaching. There were just four colleges in the whole of the UK that were associated to their local Universities that offered such a course. I went to Huddersfield and was awarded the certificate by Leeds University.

The comments made by Clothears are really uneducated and ignorant. You go to University to be taught how to think. The subject is unimportant. True some want to follow a career in their chosen subject but not all. Thats why we used to ask 'what discipline are you reading?' as this more accurately describes the purpose of going to Uni.

My dear friend Steve who unfortunately is no longer with us read both Divinity and Music concurrently and got a double first. He was literally a genius and was not only a member of Mensa but also a member of the 'inner circle' that set the questions. He used to test them on me. He is also remembered on Wiki and by all those people whose lives he touched as a lay preacher and generous giver of money before the benefits craze took over.

He made the Bible come alive with his deep knowledge and understanding and I often thought whilst he was alive that he should be presenting this on National TV. He worked in IT and could teach all of us a thing or to about how to write a computer program/application.

Cheers,

DV

 

[Ian Sampson]

"A National Living Wage, starting at £7.20 and rising to £9 an hour by 2020, replaces the £6.50 minimum wage."

Sounds like a good move.

...and we can see supermarkets, oil markets, power supply companies etc., salivating at the prospect of slowly raising prices before these come into effect.

 

[Spike]

I'm very happy to mail various GCSE Science papers and an A Level Biology paper from this year and mark them, providing you allow me to publish your marks on here. The grades will be available in September.

These will only be papers which I or friends have marked. let see how mush they have been dumbed down.

 

[Greg]

Thats got absolutely nothing to do with writing a computer program and I'd guess your exposure is very limited indeed.

I am self taught and programmed on the 'bare metal' in first machine code then in symbolic assembler through many languages some of which you have probably never heard nor met. I did this commercially and rose to Principal Consultant and taught experienced programmers through systems engineers and even Sales.

I bowed out of programming when Kernighan and Ritchie dominated the game as its a terrible language and moved into what was then a much better paid area - Comms and never looked back. I still have their book and its used for dart practice.

At the time I could take a bright person male or female who had no previous knowledge of computers and turn them into good programmers and systems analysts. Its all about logic and eff all to do with your stupid maths question.

Cheers,

DV

C is an awesome language.

 

[cooky1257]

So £70k to study for a MSc in the uk, meanwhile Germany is scrapping tuition fees.....

 

[Paul R]

Thats got absolutely nothing to do with writing a computer program and I'd guess your exposure is very limited indeed.

I am self taught and programmed on the 'bare metal' in first machine code then in symbolic assembler through many languages some of which you have probably never heard nor met. I did this commercially and rose to Principal Consultant and taught experienced programmers through systems engineers and even Sales.

I bowed out of programming when Kernighan and Ritchie dominated the game as its a terrible language and moved into what was then a much better paid area - Comms and never looked back. I still have their book and its used for dart practice.

At the time I could take a bright person male or female who had no previous knowledge of computers and turn them into good programmers and systems analysts. Its all about logic and eff all to do with your stupid maths question.

Cheers,

DV

You seem to have thorougly missed the point. A Computer Science graduate who doesn't know basic algorithms* and cannot express them formally would appear to be mis-educated.

Paul

*I would be surprised if any didn't go straight for the Sieve of Eratosthenes, but any other method would presumably be acceptable.

 

[IanW]

C is an awesome language.

That it is. Which was then followed by C++ which was even better.

DV why would you want to work in assembler if you could work in C (as in there was a real choice to be made)?

 

[oldie]

"A National Living Wage, starting at £7.20 and rising to £9 an hour by 2020, replaces the £6.50 minimum wage."

Sounds like a good move.

Sorry for the late reply ,as I have had other things to do.
Vital,
The first question to be asked is, would you work for £7.80 per hour
and apart from that the phrase " we are lifting the national minimum wage", this statement in it's self does not in fact legally bind employers to actually pay it. Sainsbury's the multi million pound Grocery store and it's major share holder do not pay some of its full time staff the minimum wage at the moment so what is to force them to do so in the future, I know this for for a fact as a friend works for them. This is just one company and there are probably thousands doing just the same. Smoke and Mirrors come immediately to mind.
oldie