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The End of My DAC Journey?

Mike Hanson

Trying to understand...
Many years ago I had a full stack of olive Naim boxes: CDS2/XPS/NAC52/Super/2xNAP135. I found myself getting irritated by the hassle of misplaced CDs, so I added a Squeezebox to my system. The earlier Squeezeboxes had poor sound quality from the RCAs, so I added my first external DAC: a Scott Nixon Chibi Saru. It was definitely better than the Squeezebox's built-in DAC, but I eventually changed to a Benchmark DAC2 HGC. This was well reviewed, and is still considered to be excellent at accurately reproducing the music.

The Benchmark had features that are becoming more common: a preamp section with a volume control, along with an analog input for my turntable (which almost never gets used). As an experiment one day, I tried skipping the NAC52 preamp, instead plugging it straight into my Naim NAP135s. The jump in clarity was astounding, and I immediately put the 52/Super up for sale. That started my move away from Naim, and there's none left now.

My friend had a Chord Qutest, and he remarked that he wanted something better. He sat me down and made me compare it to the RME ADI-2, and we both felt the Qutest was better.

Being completely happy with my Benchmark, I had him over to hear it. He gave it a listen, and announced that it wasn't good enough. Yes, it was astonishingly detailed, but he felt it was clinical and unengaging. 🤔 I didn't really know what he was on about at the time, but asked what he was going to do. He told me that I thought perhaps a Denafrips Pontus might scratch his itch.

I still doubted that there was a benefit to be had, but one appeared on the used market near where I lived, so I snagged it. Lo and behold, there was a difference! Where the Benchmark seemed detailed and accurate, the Pontus was exuberant and exciting. My friend visited again, this time bringing his Qutest. We listened to all three, and I noted that the Qutest sat somewhere between the two, while doing best with its fluidity. Three DACs--three distinct personalities! I told my friend that preferred the Pontus, then he resolutely announced that none of them was good enough! He wanted a single DAC that had the strengths of all three.

"What might that be?" He had heard of the T+A DAC200, which was much more expensive. It also had an option for an HDMI input, to play SACDs from his Oppo Blu-ray player. (My friend is very attached to his physical media.) I found a relatively cheap used unit nearby, so that we could compare the lot of them.

Someone here on PFM was remarking that the well measuring Topping DACs were completely satisfactory, so I bought a Topping DX3 Pro+ from Amazon. It would be interesting to add it to the mix.

I should mention that my friend lives more than 3,000 km from me, so he's not over every weekend. It was a few months before he had a chance to visit again. Once more, he brought his Qutest, and we were able to compare the five different DACs. The Topping was eliminated almost immediately, sounding thin and brash. We were very familiar with the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips, and it was immediately obvious that the expensive T+A had all the attributes that my friend desired. However, he was not eager to spend so much, and the unit that I had acquired didn't have the HDMI input that he needed. :rolleyes:

Complicating things further, he had heard that Weiss had excellent DACs, but their DAC501 and DAC502 were even more expensive than the T+A. In the intervening time while we were waiting for him to visit, the Weiss DAC204 was released--a smaller and much cheaper option. I was able to get a unit at dealer cost (before Weiss raised the price), so I figured I could flip it without losing anything.

Yes, the Weiss was good. Not quite as good as the T+A, but not far off. The T+A had more body, with a natural solidity to the notes, but the Weiss surpassed the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips. I should note that I wasn't impressed with the Weiss until I used a linear supply instead of its included SMPS. I planned to take it with me when I was next able to visit my friend, so he could hear it for himself.

Before I made it there, my friend decided he should take one for the team, and impulsively bought a refurbished PS Audio DirectStream DAC (traded in by someone upgrading to the Mark 2). He has a PS Audio Power Plant P5, and has long appreciated the attitude of the company, even though he's never owned anything other than their power products. Unfortunately, he soon learned that he didn't like their house sound. The presentation was incredible for its beauty and soundstage, but was rhythmically sedated. Once at his house, I confirmed his impressions: It was as if the musicians were all playing 5 bpm too slowly, and had just swallowed a gallon of sleepy-time-tea. Great for tinkly background dinner music, but totally lacking the rhythmic aggression and startling dynamics that my friend and I demand.

Then we hooked up the Weiss, and it immediately showed its superiority, with rhythmic engagement, detailed melodic flow, and musical lyricism. My friend was smitten! Unfortunately, the Weiss was quirky, and he couldn't get it to work with all of his desired digital sources.

Soon after, my friend learned of Ferrum, with its Wandla DAC, optional Hypsos power supply, and FPL (Ferrum Power Link) umbilical chord. As with the Weiss, a dealer friend sold it to me for his cost, so we could try it with little financial risk.

First off, the Wandla with its included SMPS wasn't that impressive. (The Weiss+LPS was clearly better.) Then I hooked up the Hypsos supply, but using the standard barrel connector. That brought it neck and neck with Weiss. When I introduced the FPL cable, it surpassed the Weiss! The FPL is a 4-pin cable that feeds the supplies directly to the circuit boards within the Wandla.

So how does the Ferrum combo stack up against the T+A? I would say that it's virtually indistinguishable when both are fed a regular digital signal. The Wandla has some HQPlayer filters built-in, and they add a bit of magic. The T+A does sound a touch more polished and natural, but only when compared side-by-side. However, if you're willing to upsample your digital info with HQPlayer yourself (far beyond what's included in the Wandla), then the T+A really shines.

In my case, I'm still using Squeezeboxes throughout my house, and I didn't want to go to the trouble of upsampling before the DAC. (FWIW, I've tried Roon and I didn't like it.) Therefore, the Ferrum combo is the best fit for my use case. If I were willing to go the route of HQPlayer, et al., then I would stick with the T+A. For convenience, though, it's just not worth the hassle.

Now my friend has the Ferrum combo, and I have two (one in my office and one in the family room). In summary, here is my list of DACs, ordered by my personal preference:
  • Scott Nixon Chibi Saru (hiding in the garage)
  • Topping DX3 Pro+ (decisively returned to Amazon)
  • Chord Mojo 2 (used when on the run)
  • RME ADI-2 (sold by my friend)
  • Chord Qutest (sold by my friend)
  • Benchmark DAC2 HGC (still in use here and there)
  • Denafrips Pontus II (sold back to the fellow who sold it to me)
  • Weiss DAC204 w/LPS (well loved by another PFM member)
  • Ferrum Wandla+Hypsos+FPL (our daily drivers)
  • T+A DAC200 (currently up for sale)
I think I'm done with DACs for now. ;)
 
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Many years ago I had a full stack of olive Naim boxes: CDS2/XPS/NAC52/Super/2xNAP135. I found myself getting irritated by the hassle of misplaced CDs, so I added a Squeezebox to my system. The earlier Squeezeboxes had poor sound quality from the RCAs, so I added my first external DAC: a Scott Nixon Chibi Saru. It was definitely better than the Squeezebox's built-in DAC, but I eventually changed to a Benchmark DAC2 HGC. This was well reviewed, and is still considered to be excellent at accurately reproducing the music.

The Benchmark had features that are becoming more common: a preamp section with a volume control, along with an analog input for my turntable (which almost never gets used). As an experiment one day, I tried skipping the NAC52 preamp, instead plugging it straight into my Naim NAP135s. The jump in clarity was astounding, and I immediately put the 52/Super up for sale. That started my move away from Naim, and there's none left now.

My friend had a Chord Qutest, and he remarked that he wanted something better. He sat me down and made me compare it to the RME ADI-2, and we both felt the Qutest was better.

Being completely happy with my Benchmark, I had him over to hear it. He gave it a listen, and announced that it wasn't good enough. Yes, it was astonishingly detailed, but he felt it was clinical and unengaging. 🤔 I didn't really know what he was on about at the time, but asked what he was going to do. He told me that I thought perhaps a Denafrips Pontus might scratch his itch.

I still doubted that there was a difference to be had, but one appeared on the used market near where I lived, so I snagged it. Lo and behold, there was a difference! Where the Benchmark seemed detailed and accurate, the Pontus was exuberant and exciting. My friend visited again, this time bringing his Qutest. We listened to all three, and I noted that the Qutest sat somewhere between the two, while doing best with its fluidity. Three DACs--three personalities! I told my friend that preferred the Pontus, then he resolutely announced that none of them was good enough! He wanted a single DAC that had the strengths of all three.

"What might that be?" He had heard of the T+A DAC200, which was much more expensive. It also had an option for an HDMI input, to play SACDs from his Oppo Blu-ray player. (My friend is very attached to his physical media.) I found a relatively cheap used unit nearby, so that we could compare the lot of them.

Someone here on PFM was remarking that the well measuring Topping DACs were completely satisfactory, so I bought a Topping DX3 Pro+ from Amazon. It would be interesting to add it to the mix.

I should mention that my friend lives more than 3,000 km from me, so he's not over every weekend. It was a few months before he had a chance to visit again. Once more, he brought his Qutest, and we were able to compare the five different DACs. The Topping was discarded almost immediately, sounding edgy and brash. We were very familiar with the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips, and it was immediately obvious that the expensive T+A had all the attributes that my friend desired. However, he was not eager to spend so much, and the unit that I had acquired didn't have the HDMI input that he needed. :rolleyes:

Complicating things further, he had heard that Weiss had excellent DACs, but their DAC501 and DAC502 were even more expensive than the T+A. In the intervening time while we were waiting for him to visit, the Weiss DAC204 was released--a smaller and much cheaper option. I was able to get a unit at dealer cost (before Weiss raised the price), so I figured I could flip it without losing anything.

Yes, the Weiss was good. Not quite as good as the T+A, but not far off. The T+A had more body, with a natural solidity to the notes, but the Weiss was better than the Benchmark, Chord and Denafrips. I should note that I wasn't impressed with the Weiss until I used a linear supply instead of its included SMPS. I planned to take it with me when I was next able to visit my friend, so he could hear it for himself.

Before I made it there, my friend decided he should take one for the team and impulsively bought a refurbished PS Audio DirectStream DAC (traded in by someone upgrading to the Mark 2). He has a PS Audio Power Plant P5, and has long appreciated the attitude of the company, even though he's never owned anything other than their power products. Unfortunately, he soon learned that he didn't like their house sound. The presentation was incredible for its beauty and soundstage, but was rhythmically sedated. Once at his house, I confirmed his impressions: It was as if the musicians were all playing 5bpm too slowly, and had just swallowed a gallon of sleepy-time-tea. Great for tinkly background dinner music, but totally lacking the rhythmic aggression and startling dynamics that my friend and I demand.

Then we hooked up the Weiss, and it immediately showed its superiority, with rhythmic engagement, detailed melodic flow, and musical lyricism. My friend was smitten! Unfortunately, the Weiss was quirky, and he couldn't get it to work with all of his desired digital sources.

Soon after, my friend heard about Ferrum with its Wandla DAC, optional Hypsos power supply, and FPL (Ferrum Power Link) umbilical chord. As with the Weiss, a dealer friend sold it to me for his cost, so we could try it with little financial risk.

First off, the Wandla with its included SMPS wasn't that impressive. (The Weiss+LPS was clearly better.) Then I hooked up the Hypsos supply, but using the standard barrel connector. That brought it neck and neck with Weiss. When I introduced the FPL cable, it surpassed the Weiss! The FPL is a 4-pin cable that feeds the supplies directly to the circuit boards within the Wandla.

So how does the Ferrum combo stack up against the T+A? I would say that it's virtually indistinguishable when fed a regular digital signal. The Wandla has some of the HQPlayer filters built-in, and they add a bit of magic. The T+A does sound a touch more polished and natural, but only when compared side-by-side. However, if you're willing to upsample your digital info with HQPlayer yourself (far beyond what's included in the Wandla), then the T+A really shines.

In my case, I'm still using Squeezeboxes throughout my house, and I didn't want to go to the trouble of upsampling before the DAC. (FWIW, I've tried Roon and I didn't like it.) Therefore, the Ferrum combo is the best fit for my use case. If I were willing to go the route of HQPlayer, etc., then I would stick with the T+A. For convenience, though, it's just not worth the hassle.

Now my friend has the Ferrum combo, and I have two (one in my office and one in the family room). In summary, here is my list of DACs, ordered by my personal preference:
  • Scott Nixon Chibi Saru (hiding in the garage)
  • Topping DX3 Pro+ (decisively returned to Amazon)
  • Chord Mojo 2 (used when on the run)
  • RME ADI-2 (sold by my friend)
  • Chord Qutest (sold by my friend)
  • Benchmark DAC2 HGC (still in use here and there)
  • Denafrips Pontus II (sold back to the fellow who sold it to me)
  • Weiss DAC204 w/LPS (well loved by another PFM member)
  • Ferrum Wandla+Hypsos+FPL (our daily drivers)
  • T+A DAC200 (currently up for sale)
I think I'm done with DACs for now. ;)
Fantastic and detailed personal account...exactly what we are looking for here.
 
Fantastic and detailed personal account...exactly what we are looking for here.
Agreed, thanks

This is really close to my search and very helpful. Thinking Wandla, Terminator, or Holo may. I don't really want to use hqplayer. (I have no experience with it), but Like the idea of the built in filters for a more set and forget approach.
 
Agreed, thanks

This is really close to my search and very helpful. Thinking Wandla, Terminator, or Holo may. I don't really want to use hqplayer. (I have no experience with it), but Like the idea of the built in filters for a more set and forget approach.
I've not heard the Denafrips Terminator or Holo May personally. My friend and I were considering both, but fate had another plan. ;)
 
please elaborate
Was that directed at me? If so, I'll add a bit of our thoughts along the way:
  • Given we liked the Denafrips Pontus, it seemed that we would like the Terminator Plus as well. My friend was somewhat concerned about the "personality" that Denafrips injects into the presentation, but that didn't concern me too much.
  • The fellow who sold me the T+A had the Holo Audio May packed up in a box, waiting for another buyer. He remarked that it wasn't nearly as good as the T+A. (He had just acquired a Playback Designs DAC to replace it.) Given the T+A represented our desired sound, we basically wrote off the May at that point.
The key factor, however, was that neither became available when we were looking for it, and now we're both rather happy with the Ferrum combo. (I should stress that the Wandla isn't good enough by itself. It needs the Hypsos and FPL too.)
 
Good report of your experience Mike! I'm using a Naim nDAC but have the itch for something better. I had and liked the Denafrips Venus II but it didn't like my Oppo as a transport so back it went. I remain a ladder DAC fan. Two new ones that have me curious:
Holo Cyan II that is getting great reviews and is not so expensive.
And just las night I found out about a new company out of Singapore, Laiv Audio. Their Harmony DAC also got a great review from Srajan at 6 Moons. https://www.laiv.audio/harmony-dac
 
Good stuff. I'll be likely DAC hunting next month, really useful info.

Denafrips is a funny one, they don't seem to have a house sound. The Terminator is supposed to sound a smidge bright and detailed. Looks like you landed on nice sweet spot with the Wandla

BTW, you might be aware of this:

 
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I have had quite a few lower price DAC,s pass through ranging from Metrum , Denafrips , Arcam and others each has there own strengths and I could well have stuck with the Arcam D33 . But many years ago I heard an Arcam CD Player with a dCS ring dac built in and was very impressed with the sound . I saw a pair of dCS Delius / Purcell units very much the bottom rung of this companies products but within my budget provided I sold a couple of DAC,s . Yes I do know these are old units and dCS have improved the Ringdac over time but I am happy with this pair and love the more natural and organic sound it brings . Stopped looking at DAC,s after owning this about three months and unless I come across a billy bargain dCS for sale which is doubtful then will stick with what I have .
 
Good stuff. I'll be likely DAC hunting next month, really useful info.

Denafrips is a funny one, they don't seem to have a house sound. The Terminator is supposed to sound a smidge bright and detailed. Looks like you landed on nice sweet spot with the Wandla

BTW, you might be aware of this:

Yes, I was aware of the upcoming GoldenSound edition. Most features are available as a firmware update to my DACs here, but the lower voltage tweak is only simulated, as it requires a different physical configuration.

One particular feature that seems interesting is their "tube" emulator, as I like the sound of tubes, but I'm irritated by the practicality of them. See my Vexed by Valves thread for more insight into my consternation. 🙄
 
Reading your post Mike, has got me thinking? I've been contemplating buying a new DAC. I use a M2Tech Young at the mo which is 13 years old now. Maybe time to try something different. One with a remote!
 
I have had quite a few lower price DAC,s pass through ranging from Metrum , Denafrips , Arcam and others each has there own strengths and I could well have stuck with the Arcam D33 . But many years ago I heard an Arcam CD Player with a dCS ring dac built in and was very impressed with the sound . I saw a pair of dCS Delius / Purcell units very much the bottom rung of this companies products but within my budget provided I sold a couple of DAC,s . Yes I do know these are old units and dCS have improved the Ringdac over time but I am happy with this pair and love the more natural and organic sound it brings . Stopped looking at DAC,s after owning this about three months and unless I come across a billy bargain dCS for sale which is doubtful then will stick with what I have .

Similar to my journey - I got a Delius last year, and picked up a Purcell a month or so back. For me digital started getting really better when I built a Pi4/DigiOne streaming front end, needed to get a lock onto a vintage Wadia X32 DAC I got a few years back. After a long journey similar to @Mike Hanson (great post, thanks!) the Pi4 into the Wadia finally started providing something that challenged my modified Naim CDI cd player as a primary source. Since then I got the Delius which was better than the Wadia (just...plus had a remote ;) ), then got a Mark Levinson 360 to compare it to, but preferred the Delius, finally got a Purcell. I am at end game territory now, given I'm such a cheapskate :p

Must start selling some of my collection - 3x X32s, the 360, PT P3a with PSU, Camelot Arthur and a semi-decent Chinese 1541 based item....
 


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