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The end of Mana Audio

Bub - you are right it is human nature to speculate (or comment/judge without the facts) and never more so on a forum were identities/motives can be hidden. This is true whether giving a judgement on a company or a product never heard.

This is not much different to mob mentality, when having heard part of the story a judgement is made, a bandwagon is jumped on, a demand is made for action and that the group concerned come clean. Next the mob bays for blood (figuratively or literally).

Which is more fundamentally dangerous?

A wise man once said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Merlin - can I assume that:
1. You have a right to the 'full story'
2. You are a legal expert and therefore KNOW the legal position on 'taking action against forum owners
3. That you KNOW what professional advice Mana have been given
4. That you KNOW what JW/Mana's financial position is and if they could afford to take legal action even if they wanted to
 
Mike,

Not relevent I am afraid.

The only fact that is of importance is that continued silence in response to internet reports is doing harm to both JW's personal and company's esteem.

There's nothing like a former disciple posting whilst his head remains in the sand. Those without allegiences can easily put two and two together and get four.
 
Excuse my ignorance but how come all this nasty sniping has arisen from just one, AFAIK, angry/dissatisfied customer claim which would seem possibly to have coincided, unfortunately, with perhaps either a liquidity hiccup or a production line/company rethink and maybe also a personality clash. Seems lots of people have got it in for Mana or rather for JW and now just because he hasn´t risen to the bait and answered back it´s pillory time. I would guess that many are anti-Mana because they consider it unnecessarily expensive angle iron in these days of 40 quid singing and dancing DVD players and similar crap - so don´t buy it already. For what it´s worth, in my very limited dealings with Mana, I have always received excellent service and friendly advice, both by e-mail or over the phone.
 
Chris said:
Excuse my ignorance but how come all this nasty sniping has arisen from just one, AFAIK, angry/dissatisfied customer claim ....
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I don't think it has; I think it's arisen from a lack of clarity of the solvency and trading status of Mana Audio Ltd.

On the one hand, there are a number of customers who seem to have had to wait a long time for their orders to be fulfilled, several more still who seem to be trying to order goods but can't get cost and delivery information (including seemingly the US importer), and an application signed by JW for Mana Audio Ltd to be struck-off at Companies House. There is also one fairly well documented case of a customer who has paid £1000, and recieved neither the goods he ordered nor his money back.

On the other hand, all threads asking for reasonable clarification on the Mana forum are apparently pulled by JW, and no statement from JW or the company has been forthcoming.

People are perfectly capable of drawing their own conculsions (and human nature being what it is they undoubtedly will do). Confidence is a big part of doing business, so if Mana isn't bust, then this seems a pretty good way of getting there fast.
 
Excuse my ignorance but how come all this nasty sniping has arisen from just one, AFAIK, angry/dissatisfied customer claim which would seem possibly to have coincided, unfortunately, with perhaps either a liquidity hiccup or a production line/company rethink and maybe also a personality clash.
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The most telling piece of information is a scan of the 652a Proposal To Strile Off document signed by John Watson that can be seen on the thread on Zero Gain. This is the main reason I am allowing this thread to run, i.e. Mana Audio Ltd does not appear to exist anymore in any legal sense, and anyone considering making a purchase, especially given the deliberate censorship evident on their own forum should be aware of this information.

I would like this thread to keep as much as possible to a factual basis – I find the notion that some people may actually revel in a business failure more than a bit tasteless, like or loath the product no one deserves that. Please lets stick to the hard facts, and all that is concrete and indisputable at present IMHO is the 652a Proposal To Strike Off document and the ongoing censorship of any enquiries about the trading status of Mana Audio Ltd on their own web forum.

Tony.
 
Merlin: "There's nothing like a former disciple posting whilst his head remains in the sand"

Who does this refer to?
 
As I already said, the form displayed on ZG can only be submitted for a dormant company, or one whuch has never traded. Its impossible to get it past HMC&E and the Revenue, if accounts are overdue and it traded in that period. My best guess is that its a bit of a try on, ie winding up the company without doing the accounts.
 
If by inference, Mana are claiming not to have traded for some time, I would urge anyone thinking of sending them money to do so only using a credit card with protection against insolvency.

cheers all
 
HMC&E and The Revenue are the same people nowadays - HMRC.

Also the 652a explicitly states that the company has done no more than settle it's affairs in the last 3 months.

I find it inconceivable that someone would wind up their company to avoid doing their accounts, but it's entirely possible - Companies House wouldn't chase a company being wound up (either voluntarily or otherwise) and so long as the Company settled it's affairs with HMRC there would be no objection from them.

Obviously to settle up with HMRC means doing the accounts...

If, as is alleged, someone took delivery of product within the last 3 months, then the 652a may have been filed incorrectly, which is a criminal offence.

It all seems quite odd, IMPO.
 
Chris said:
Excuse my ignorance but how come all this nasty sniping has arisen from just one, AFAIK, angry/dissatisfied customer claim which would seem possibly to have coincided, unfortunately, with perhaps either a liquidity hiccup or a production line/company rethink and maybe also a personality clash. Seems lots of people have got it in for Mana or rather for JW and now just because he hasn´t risen to the bait and answered back it´s pillory time. I would guess that many are anti-Mana because they consider it unnecessarily expensive angle iron in these days of 40 quid singing and dancing DVD players and similar crap - so don´t buy it already. For what it´s worth, in my very limited dealings with Mana, I have always received excellent service and friendly advice, both by e-mail or over the phone.
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I am that customer! I too received excellent service from Mana in the past and on the one occasion I spoke to JW he was most friendly and charming. After placing my order in April I worked with Mana to overcome the long reasons for delay in supply and never lost my cool. Eventually a Mana employee (they telephoned weekly with updates) made it clear my stand was unlikely ever to be delivered. After that phones went unanswered, no response to emails, faxes, Forum PM's to JW and my posts were deleted. No idea what caused all this. Visa tried to interevene but they got no response and pulled the Visa accreditation on Mana. They advised small claims court action which I did only after a final courteous letter to JW's home asking for my stand or a refund.

Mana have all my contact details but have never attempted to resolve the issue (I really did need that stand to complete a set - nothing to do with sound quality) so it does pain me to see a company I have supported since 1988 go by the wayside.

So to be clear - I an not angry, there is no personality clash involved and the only disgruntlement comes from my wife who had to put up with a plie of equipment on the floor of her newly designed living room!
 
A pity to see Mana go, if that is the case. I have heard the Mana effect, but unfortunately it included a downside that I couldn't live with. Nevertheless, for some people with different priorities it would be essential.

As for their stuff being overpriced angle-iron, ALL Hi-Fi supports are. In terms of materials, they are one of the great rip-offs of our time. If IKEA ever decided to do a proper stand, they could easily crank out something like a Quadraspire or a Naim Fraim for £25 a layer.
 
2 many boxes said:
If IKEA ever decided to do a proper stand, they could easily crank out something like a Quadraspire or a Naim Fraim for £25 a layer.
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And if its made by Ikea, it will take approximately 3 days for two people to assemble, and will be broken within a week.

:D
 
They advised small claims court action which I did only after a final courteous letter to JW's home asking for my stand or a refund.
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It's probably too late now, but I don't know why they didn't suggest issuing a Statutory Demand. There's really no point in using the Small Claims Court when there isn't any dispute for the Court to rule over - as in this case (they have your £1000 and they have failed to deliver anything at all).

Even once the SCC ruled in your favour, you would still have been faced with the problem you have now (that of collecting your money) - the SCC proceedure just wastes some time and increases the costs. It would be a different matter of course if there was a dispute over the debt - if you had refused delivery of the goods, or taken delivery of something about which you were not happy for example.
 
Not sure a buyer who paid for goods not received would be entitled to issue a statutory demand (any lawyers here?).

With a judgement in the small claims court, if there is no repayment, then distraint could be imposed.
 
It works fine the other way round ie. if you supply goods and don't get paid.

Distraint is pretty easy to avoid - lock the doors and don't let the bailiffs in, deny you own anything they point at etc etc.

IME collecting money is much, much harder than getting the courts to give you an order saying you're owed it!

(BTW, I'm no lawyer)
 
Cav said:
Not sure a buyer who paid for goods not received would be entitled to issue a statutory demand (any lawyers here?).
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The requirements of a Statutory Demand are printed on the form, and you don't need to be a lawyer to issue one. In general terms, you can issue a demand for unpaid money or for the money to be returned for undelivered goods any time you wish, and the recipient on which it is "served" has 21 days to lodge a response denying the claim.
 
Bailiffs can get court orders allowing forcible entry to commercial property (as opposed to residential) so could remove machinery etc. from the factory.
 
Cav,

The "Mana Factory" was all part of the edifice. It never made a thing. It was a place where Boards, Glass, Spikes and Welded, powder coated metalwork was delivered from separate suppliers -- they'd not had stands made in-house for many many years.

Assuming any of the "machinery" hasn't long since been cleared out. Heuer (and any other people Mana owes money to) will get a fine recompense in Stickers, flat packed carboard, bubble wrap and Polystyrene Spacers.

Oh and a box stapler...

...possibly.
 
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