the best JAZZ solo instrument
- Thread starter vuk
- Start date
imagine if a time machine swapped him and coleman hawkins, you'd be going on about a different guy.
Possibly not. I've played guitar for over 20 years and therefore understand the techniques used in guitar playing better than those associated with any other instrument; yet I could not name any one player that I think stands head and shoulders above all others.
I believe that every pop, jazz and classical musician or composer uses a finite set of phrases and sounds, and that there always comes a point -- particularly once you have internalised that person's "vocabulary" -- where you can stand at a distance and regard the whole thing as waves of clichés lapping on your aural shores; it invariably opens a fissure in the illusion.
With Coltrane, however, that doesn't happen to me. Whatever it is he was doing (I'm certainly not talking about "mere" technical proficiency, and not about composition in the normal sense), he was so much better at it than every other saxophone player that their playing, and the silliness described above, sticks out like a sore thumb. This is a rather unfortunate state of affairs for saxophone players. AFAICS, there is or was no "Coltrane" guitarist (for example), so guitarists can go on noodling without anyone ever telling them, "Yes, ok, but I know Coltrane, and your NOT HIM!"
Possibly not. I've played guitar for over 20 years and therefore understand the techniques used in guitar playing better than those associated with any other instrument; yet I could not name any one player that I think stands head and shoulders above all others.
I believe that every pop, jazz and classical musician or composer uses a finite set of phrases and sounds, and that there always comes a point -- particularly once you have internalised that person's "vocabulary" -- where you can stand at a distance and regard the whole thing as waves of clichés lapping on your aural shores; it invariably opens a fissure in the illusion.
With Coltrane, however, that doesn't happen to me. Whatever it is he was doing (I'm certainly not talking about "mere" technical proficiency, and not about composition in the normal sense), he was so much better at it than every other saxophone player that their playing, and the silliness described above, sticks out like a sore thumb. This is a rather unfortunate state of affairs for saxophone players. AFAICS, there is or was no "Coltrane" guitarist (for example), so guitarists can go on noodling without anyone ever telling them, "Yes, ok, but I know Coltrane, and your NOT HIM!"
vuk
\o/ choose anarchy
thomas.
perhaps i do not have sufficient formal understanding of music to appreciate what you are saying. coltrane does sound very different to me, but it seems like innovation/originality, not something that another could not emulate. you could say that a late wagner opera exposes some of the cliche of a set-piece aria in mozart, but it doesn;t take away from the brilliance of "die zauberflöte."
finally, there are many free-jazz things i've heard that make coltrane sound like he's playing dixie. what do you make of that?
vuk.
perhaps i do not have sufficient formal understanding of music to appreciate what you are saying. coltrane does sound very different to me, but it seems like innovation/originality, not something that another could not emulate. you could say that a late wagner opera exposes some of the cliche of a set-piece aria in mozart, but it doesn;t take away from the brilliance of "die zauberflöte."
finally, there are many free-jazz things i've heard that make coltrane sound like he's playing dixie. what do you make of that?
vuk.
Vuk, I hardly have any formal understanding of music myself (I can't even read it), so I doubt that's the obstacle to becoming so "rigid" when it comes to Coltrane.
there are many free-jazz things i've heard that make coltrane sound like he's playing dixie
But in what way does that free-jazz make Coltrane sound like Dixie? In terms of technical proficiency? Complexity of compositon? I don't for a minute doubt that this could be so.
Unfortunately, I have to press on with work -- maybe I can come up with something more meaningful tomorrow.
there are many free-jazz things i've heard that make coltrane sound like he's playing dixie
But in what way does that free-jazz make Coltrane sound like Dixie? In terms of technical proficiency? Complexity of compositon? I don't for a minute doubt that this could be so.
Unfortunately, I have to press on with work -- maybe I can come up with something more meaningful tomorrow.
martin clark
pinko bodger
Clear exposition of a concept I havent been able to put into words. ta.Thomas K said:
Tick, 'agree' BTW.
kasperhauser
pfm Member
Voice. Ella's voice, to be exact.
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
Mmm, the best Jazz solo instrument is the guitar when it is in the hands of Derek Bailey, a leading free jazz innovator.
Bailey started Incus with Tony Oxley which was the first musician owned independent label in the UK. He was co-founder of Musics magazine and wrote a book called Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice. The latter was adapted by Channel 4 into a four part television series.
Bailey collaborated with people like Fred Firth, John Zorn, Thurston Moore and and Evan Parker. He also formed the Company collective for improvisors.
I only saw him perform a couple of times. The first occasion I seem to recall was at the LSE in about 1975. He was playing guitar by himself onstage and the weirdest melodic and time-signature noises were coming out. I remember thinking, What the **** is that old bloke doing?
Bailey started Incus with Tony Oxley which was the first musician owned independent label in the UK. He was co-founder of Musics magazine and wrote a book called Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice. The latter was adapted by Channel 4 into a four part television series.
Bailey collaborated with people like Fred Firth, John Zorn, Thurston Moore and and Evan Parker. He also formed the Company collective for improvisors.
I only saw him perform a couple of times. The first occasion I seem to recall was at the LSE in about 1975. He was playing guitar by himself onstage and the weirdest melodic and time-signature noises were coming out. I remember thinking, What the **** is that old bloke doing?
vuk
\o/ choose anarchy
kasperhauser
pfm Member
Didgeridoo?
