The best audio system on earth?

[cb01]

I'm getting silly? You got childish. I've given my advice and opinion, and I remain confident in this. We could engage in an interesting conversation about what constitutes "best" and how we deal with the fact that the audio industry is mature and has made very few advances in the last 20, 30 or 50 years compared to cars, TVs or (brace yourself) computers. I have access to more computing power in my pocket than NASA in 1974, and I use it to phone my mother. Cars 50 years ago had carburettors and did 30 mpg at best. Electric cars were milk floats. TVs had CRTs and weighed a tonne. 28" was a good size. What's hifi done? The CD. Pretty good. 40 years old, but pretty good then. Computer audio. That's good. DSP. But compared to the other stuff, that's bugger all.
But you don't want to have any of these discussions, you just want to throw jibes from the sidelines. Child. That's fine. You do you. Jog on.

Steve, I would accuse you of being ignorant. But I actually don't think you are. I think you are a cancer in audio and that you're the very worst part of the hobby. Robbing joy and life from what should be a fun and diversionary pursuit.

There's also no truth in what you say; only half truths. The worst kind of lies.

Adding you to my ignore list after this post. I'll ask you to please stop trying to ruin the hobby, but you won't listen.

 

[S-Man]

I'm not sure you can really draw any firm conclusions by listening to audio recorded by someone wandering around with a phone camera.

Sorry, it was an attempt at humour. Maybe I should have been more direct and said “Dali had the most plinkyplonky music, so they must be the hiest-end”?

 

[cb01]

You seem to have missed what I wrote earlier as above. For somebody arguing obsessively about understanding every individual to inordinate lengths, you seem very keen to make assertions about what individuals in this discussion are saying to you despite them actually making clear what they do think.

Ian, let me take you on a trip down memory lane:

... because it's immediately obvious those objects are jewellery/status signifiers/whatever and don't perform the function of telling the time any better than a 5 quid Casio?

You said that in response to my analogy to Swiss mechanical watches. This is what triggered our entire conversation...wherein you have dipped, dived, ducked, and dodged my repeated attempts to have you answer my simple question:

"How could you possibly KNOW that any one purchaser of a luxury item is doing so because they think it will increase their status, without talking to them?"

As a true academic, you have found ways to spill many words, without saying anything at all. I'll definitely give you your publish-or-die credit here. You feel entitled and empowered to judge others without speaking to them, based on collective assumptions based upon aggregate group data. I find this repugnant, yet you seem to be rather proud of your attempts. We will never agree.

My advice to you (as I add you to my ignore list along with stevec67), is to please be as brave and vocal to the faces of these notional Oligarch-Fi buyers, if you should ever meet one, as you are brave to strangers on the internet. Just make sure to also tell them how jealous you are. They deserve to know the truth.

You're just behind steve as being one of the very worst ambassadors for this lovely hobby.

 

[S-Man]

these notional Oligarch-Fi buyers

I am left wondering who is actually buying this stuff. I wonder how many visitors to the show are potential customers? Can all these companies survive?

 

[cb01]

I am left wondering who is actually buying this stuff. I wonder how many visitors to the show are potential customers? Can all these companies survive?

Honestly it has to be a minuscule amount of people. I would guess it to be roughly the same amount of people who can afford a luxury yacht or private jet. Except, one cannot charter an audio system or otherwise write-it-off to justify business expenses....so it may even be a smaller cadre of potential customers than that.

I would also imagine that these manufacturers are doing quite a bit better than key-stoning their margin for these things.

 

[stevec67]

Steve, I would accuse you of being ignorant. But I actually don't think you are. I think you are a cancer in audio and that you're the very worst part of the hobby. Robbing joy and life from what should be a fun and diversionary pursuit.

There's also no truth in what you say; only half truths. The worst kind of lies.

Adding you to my ignore list after this post. I'll ask you to please stop trying to ruin the hobby, but you won't listen.

Well, that's a win. I'm a cancer in audio. Well, I must be. It's not as if you have fallen out with anyone else on this thread in the last 2 days, is it?

 

[stevec67]

I am left wondering who is actually buying this stuff. I wonder how many visitors to the show are potential customers? Can all these companies survive?

I doubt that they are standalone companies. They may be hobbies or they may be a branch of an existing and profitable business. If you sell, say, electrical components and you manufacture a hundred boutique ones that cost you a bit of paint and some fancy packaging costing £1 a go, you only need to sell one for £100 and you have your money back. Sell 2, it's all gravy and you're in front. You can shove them in a corner after that, if you get a sale you get a sale.
SME started out as manufacturers of laboratory scales, I think. The owner was interested in hifi so he decided to make a tonearm at work using the scales manufacturing kit. It's all precision engineering.

 

[John Phillips]

I am left wondering who is actually buying this stuff. I wonder how many visitors to the show are potential customers? Can all these companies survive?

Consider the anchoring effect (AKA anchoring bias) and the impact of showing off implausibly priced "statement products". Think about the way in which it may influence how potential customers perceive the value of lower priced but still expensive products. I think there's a common saying in the world of product pricing which goes “How do you sell a $2,000 watch? Display it next to a $10,000 watch.”

 

[stevec67]

My advice to you (as I add you to my ignore list along with stevec67), is to please be as brave and vocal to the faces of these notional Oligarch-Fi buyers,

I will, if I meet one who has spent the price of a car, or better, a house, on foo. Or on some mid fi in a big shiny box.

Just make sure to also tell them how jealous you are. They deserve to know the truth.

Oh, I most certainly will! How jealous of their oligarch hifi bling am I? Erm, not at all. No more than I am jealous of their wives with $100,000 handbags, $10,000 shoes and $20,000 dresses.

 

[S-Man]

Consider the anchoring effect (AKA anchoring bias) and the impact of showing off implausibly priced "statement products". Think about the way in which it may influence how potential customers perceive the value of lower priced but still expensive products. I think there's a common saying in the world of product pricing which goes “How do you sell a $2,000 watch? Display it next to a $10,000 watch.”

I understand that. However there is a significant difference between cars + watches and hifi. Cars and watches are easy to show off. It’s hard to do a bit of poseuring with a hifi!

 

[Heckyman]

Lots of rich people in China to buy this stuff, even if it's a small fraction of the population...

 

[badger748]

Well, there was the milk float in Father Ted. God was involved there, especially as Dougal was struggling to keep the speed above 4mph.

A welcome diversion from this thread - do you remember what happened when he went to deliver the actual milk! "those women were in the nip..!"

 

[sq225917]

Steve, I would accuse you of being ignorant. But I actually don't think you are. I think you are a cancer in audio and that you're the very worst part of the hobby. Robbing joy and life from what should be a fun and diversionary pursuit.

There's also no truth in what you say; only half truths. The worst kind of lies.

Adding you to my ignore list after this post. I'll ask you to please stop trying to ruin the hobby, but you won't listen.

Well at least he's not a shill who only pops up after a specific hifi show then posts nowt for twelve months.

 

[TheFlash]

The number of audio companies capable of getting deep into the weeds of bespoke chip design or real computer architecture is minuscule. I can bring to mind Chord, dCS and Meridian, and I may be stretching that definition a little even here.

The overwhelming majority of this is taking an off-the-shelf DAC chipset and controlling it with an embedded ARM chipset computer. I‘m sure most is pretty much off the shelf IOT technology flung in an absurdly massive CNC box with some impressive looking audiophile analogue circuitry and a flashy custom display. It’s a Pi, a DAC, and a display FFS! It needn’t cost the price of a house!

I think the other end of the market, say the Chord Mojo/Poly, is very innovative (if a bit buggy). That is serving up some great audiophile technology at a very reasonable price and represents a good bridge between home and mobile listening. A great entry to high quality sound for younger folk. Perfect for headphone listening, great for home listening plugged into a pair of active speakers. I’d like to see shows focus far more on this sector than parading room after room of Veblen goods for billionaires. If the industry is to retain any relevance this it is essential IMHO.

The opening post was about Audio Show Deluxe of course, which focuses on the spendier end of the market (actually by some definitions the midrange!); every show has its place.

I'd like to see the sort of entry point show you mention but it wouldn't be a load of old blokes making it work, it would need some younger folk tuned into younger folk's priorities to make it an attractive proposition for a day out. Of course the elephant in the room is who would pay for this sort of show and how the manufacturers/dealers would reconcile the costs of running a room with the likely sales it would ultimately need to generate to pay its way. Lots to sort out...

 

[booja30]

Well, there was the milk float in Father Ted. God was involved there, especially as Dougal was struggling to keep the speed above 4mph.

"The best milk float on earth?" would be a more useful and entertaining thread than this one (IMO). I'd love to see what kind of milk floats the 0.1% drive. Read the justifications for the external clocks for the electronic speed controllers, and how the oxygen free copper windings in the motor create such a gentle but forceful acceleration. The milk bottles don't even rattle. "It's like riding on a cloud", says a milk float influencer in a YouTube video.

 

[Huss]

Reading this entire thread…so far…ranging from comments on how good /bad a hifi show system reproduced recorded music to philosophical musings on the reality of existence and comments on God …astronaut or deity , and slapping hifi personalities/ dealers/ brands… {and on other threads}, surely this is ’the best audio forum on earth’ ….


ooh, breaking news, new NAGRA reference turntable c$100k , has a Spheroidal graphite iron shaft/bearing housing…. New thread ?

 

[Yank]

Reading this entire thread…so far…ranging from comments on how good /bad a hifi show system reproduced recorded music to philosophical musings on the reality of existence and comments on God …astronaut or deity , and slapping hifi personalities/ dealers/ brands… {and on other threads}, surely this is ’the best audio forum on earth’ ….


ooh, breaking news, new NAGRA reference turntable c$100k , has a Spheroidal graphite iron shaft/bearing housing…. New thread ?

"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." - Jules

 

[Huss]

"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." - Jules

 

[Darren L]

From reading this thread the watching the video posted earlier this show seems to be mostly a vulgar display of obscenely priced goods thus further demonstrating the inequality of the distribution of wealth in our society.

 

[Tony L]

I'd like to see the sort of entry point show you mention but it wouldn't be a load of old blokes making it work, it would need some younger folk tuned into younger folk's priorities to make it an attractive proposition for a day out.

Again this is kind of the point I’m trying to make, and I bring a whole life experience with me in making it. I aspired to a proper hi-fi as soon as I heard a really good system aged 12 or 13. Literally seconds after the needle dropped. I had achieved it before my 16th birthday with a second-hand Lenco, Quad 33/303 and a pair of JR149s. A pretty decent system even by today’s standards. The system that sparked my interest as a pre/early-teen was a TD-125, 3009, V15/III, a Quad 33/303 and a pair of Celestion Ditton 66. Quite a high-end rig in 1974 or whenever it was, yet still kind of tentatively attainable even to a little kid. It wasn’t a Lamborghini Miura, a Lear Jet or an island in the Bahamas. It was a music replay tool that if one really wanted one could scrabble and save and achieve.

That same little 12-13 year old kid seeing the video upthread would just conclude hi-fi was just for boomer billionaires. There is just no connection or relevance. It may as well be a space station. A gigantic banner shouting “This technology is not for you”.

I argue these points because I care about music, I care about audio, and I want to see a whole new generation enjoy something beyond headphone listening (which admittedly is superb and remarkably attainable these days). If the conventional audio industry wants to survive it needs to pitch to kids and teenagers. Kids and teenagers just like I was. Like many of us here were. The musicians are. The world is awash with amazing new vinyl, CDs and downloads from amazing new artists. They are doing their part. The hi-fi industry needs to do its part and become relevant again. If it doesn’t it is dead.

PS I do accept there is still some good honest kit out there, I don’t intend to slag everyone off. I just feel the industry as a whole has lost its way to a disturbing extent. Every year I make the same point, and every year what I am looking at is even more absurd and ultimately irrelevant than the previous years offering.