Tannoy Legacy series

[Chris81]

But they are classed as furniture......as are curtains and carpets. Perhaps you could clarify the point you are trying to make?

I know that an armchair and a sofa is classed as furniture. I was more curious which construction materials (as claimed by John) are absorbing high frequencies. You are right, a carpet/rug and curtains aren't construction materials either, sorry for the confusion. Leather Armchairs and sofas aren't necessarily absorbing HF. On the opposite rugs, a carpet and curtains do only absorb HF.

BTW: I don't have an armchair or a sofa in my listening room. Only a horizontal pole because I'm...

 

[Ayya Khema]

Those are not my words and I don’t believe that is what Earl Geddes was saying in his book. This is what he said:

The use of sound absorption in a small room must be dealt with extremely carefully. It has been my experience that it is almost impossible to make a small room too live at high frequencies. Most typical room construction materials and furniture have significant levels of absorption at high frequencies.

How close is your listening position and loudspeakers to walls in your room?

kk
My room is 14 x 10. but it doesnt matter, cause the ceiling early reflection and floor early reflection no matter the room size must be absorbed unless you have cathedral like ceilings.
my speakers are a good 4 feet away from the side walls.
but my listening position is againt the wall so a panel is needed behind my head, as well as the ceiling and floor
Ive tried to remove the side walls panels and it really affected SQ.

Ask any acoustician about early reflections and small rooms and the answer is always the same: you must absorb it. if you have a huge room, very deep diffusion can work.
early reflections= must be absorbed
secondary reflection even in small room can be left alone.
it almost feels like most people cont understand the difference between early reflections and secondary

Ive had many debates over the years at diyaudio with Geddes himself, as much as I respect his expetise in subwoofer integration, horns and waveguide desing, his opinion about room acoustic and absorption seem plagued with ignorance. or at least it goes against everything I have learned while treating my room and every successful acoustician in the world. Treating the early reflections in a medium or small room (anything under 20 x 30 feet) can only be done succcessfully via absoprtion. measurements back this up as well. his opinion seem to have borrowed some misleading Olive work ( Harman room measure like 40 x20 feet iirc) and applied that logic for small room acoustic.

 

[cooky1257]

kk
My room is 14 x 10. but it doesnt matter, cause the ceiling early reflection and floor early reflection no matter the room size must be absorbed unless you have cathedral like ceilings.
my speakers are a good 4 feet away from the side walls.
but my listening position is againt the wall so a panel is needed behind my head, as well as the ceiling and floor
Ive tried to remove the side walls panels and it really affected SQ.

Ask any acoustician about early reflections and small rooms and the answer is always the same: you must absorb it. if you have a huge room, very deep diffusion can work.
early reflections= must be absorbed
secondary reflection even in small room can be left alone.
it almost feels like most people cont understand the difference between early reflections and secondary

Ive had many debates over the years at diyaudio with Geddes himself, as much as I respect his expetise in subwoofer integration, horns and waveguide desing, his opinion about room acoustic and absorption seem plagued with ignorance. or at least it goes against everything I have learned while treating my room and every successful acoustician in the world. Treating the early reflections in a medium or small room (anything under 20 x 30 feet) can only be done succcessfully via absoprtion. measurements back this up as well. his opinion seem to have borrowed some misleading Olive work ( Harman room measure like 40 x20 feet iirc) and applied that logic for small room acoustic.

Geddes does not say you don't need to deal with first reflections, he says there are other ways to go about it other than absorption, see page 96 in Johns link, Upthread is a very informative link to a Geddes article that demonstrates how speaker dispersion and toe in is one way...
P 96;

 

[John]

I find what Geddes says about spaciousness interesting.

 

[John]

 

[JTC]

I gave in and installed the Gaias. Quite difficult thing to achieve by yourself - a yoga brick and some hardback books were necessary - but they're in.

I'm going to hold back on any sort of review as it's difficult to get a handle on what exactly they're doing. All I can say right now is that, in my room, I've tended to have the HF set to +1.5dB and the roll-off to +2dB, but I found that a bit too hot, so I've gone back to level/+2dB. The Gaias seem to have either reduced the mid/bass a touch, or (conversely) I was losing some HF due to the Tannoy feet and the Gaia has sorted that out. Not sure which is the truth of it. What I will say is that they've definitely done something to the sound, and it'll take listening to some more familiar albums before I can really pin it down (most of what was to hand is quite new to me - Go by Nils Wülker, a Duckworth Lewis Method cd and a compilation of Louden Wainwright III. But it all sounds okay.

 

[John]

Interesting video from Harbeth regarding speaker setup, reflections, speaker/speaker distance ratio to speaker/listener distance. Enforces my thinking about keeping the loudspeakers and listening position well away from walls. Like the explanation about how stereo works and the advantages of a center loudspeaker.

 

[hifinutt]

yes my shl5plus did not like walls , the tannoys dont mind them at all

 

[Seanm]

yes my shl5plus did not like walls , the tannoys dont mind them at all

It's a major plus point isn't it: main reason my new Berkeleys are staying and my C7s going.

 

[hifinutt]

it is a major point because many of us just can`t have speakers sticking out into the room ...., what with ladies walking by with handbags , hoovers and whatever

 

[windhoek]

Dynaudio have a few videos on their YouTube channel about speaker placement and such like. The 'rule of thumb' they recommend in the video below is the 20% guide: place the speakers 20% the length of the room away from the wall behind and 20% away from the adjacent sidewalls, and do likewise with the listening position at the opposite end/side of the room. They reckon this will get you fairly close to an ideal setup with just fine tweaking thereafter. In darts terminology, it's probably fair to say the 20% guide will get you and your speakers in the 25-point ring if not the bullseye with your first three darts!

 

[TheDecameron]

It's a major plus point isn't it: main reason my new Berkeleys are staying and my C7s going.

Stop it!

 

[Seanm]

Stop it!

They fill a room with music, Hugh, fill it! And so easy to accommodate!

 

[windhoek]

Following a hop, skip and jump from Edinburgh, a pair of Legacy Eatons are mine

They sound absolutely fantastic once you dial them into the sweet spot. Unfortunately, that sweet spot isn't going to be where my Kralk Audio speakers currently are due to the shape of the room and the fact that I've got my turntable and TV (and cables) on the wall (see pic below) - believe me, I've tried; there's just waaay too much bass reinforcement going on! - so I'm going to have to set them up longways, as it were. Unfortunately, the living room door is near where the left speaker will be so entry/exit will be slightly compromised. A bit of a faff, sure. But considering how good they sound I'm more than prepared to put up with some faff in exchange for sonic bliss.

As you can see, there's not enough room for the right speaker to neatly drop in that gap next to the TV (with the Kallax unit out of the way, of course) because of the immense bass reinforcement that occurs and well, it would be right next to my TT, so that's no good. Besides, the room is too narrow to accommodate the big sound they produce. A portrait setup is the only way forward. Lots of faffing about to follow as I get me and the tannoys in our ideal positions but I know it'll be worth it.

Fwiw, I'll be keeping my Kralk Audio speakers where they as they're waaay too good to move on so I'm going to be running two systems: one for neighbour-friendly listening and one for neighbour-annoying listening

 

[yuckyamson]

Awesome. Looks great. Which kralks btw? What did you compare them to before purchase? All just curious. Thanks.

Waiting for jtc eval on the gaia's. Jtc make sure the logos face either forwards or backwards!

 

[JTC]

Waiting for jtc eval on the gaia's. Jtc make sure the logos face either forwards or backwards!

I'm definitely going to do a write-up once I've got my head around what the changes are. For sure, they have brought changes. And, yes, they're facing forwards, although if I'm honest I haven't got the Ardens 100% level mainly due to trying to do this stuff on my own. But they're as close to level as they need to be.

 

[Coda II]

I'm definitely going to do a write-up once I've got my head around what the changes are. For sure, they have brought changes. And, yes, they're facing forwards, although if I'm honest I haven't got the Ardens 100% level mainly due to trying to do this stuff on my own. But they're as close to level as they need to be.

There isn't really enough space to get your fingers and/or spanner in to get the respective lock-nuts tight and rotated and level all at the same time is there. I think the weight is balanced towards the rear set as well which therefore compress a little more.

 

[Seanm]

Anyone experimented with tilting big Tannoys?

 

[windhoek]

Awesome. Looks great. Which kralks btw? What did you compare them to before purchase? All just curious. Thanks.

Waiting for jtc eval on the gaia's. Jtc make sure the logos face either forwards or backwards!

They're BC-30s (mk1). They're very much like Kans but not as extremely squwaky as mk1 Kans. I think they're better than Kans but it's been so long since I heard a pair it's hard to be sure. Either way, they're going nowhere

 

[Hoopsontoast]

I've been experimenting, swapping the room around with the view of some building work later in the summer. The cross-eyed setup seems to work well so far, having this setup allows a bit more space around the speakers rather than them being hard up against the rear walls.

As it was:

System by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

Now:

System by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

The electronics won't stay on top of the subwoofer, will be moved to the right hand side where the armchair is once I have finished.