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Switzerland to become a Socialist's utopia?

NeilR

NeilR

pfm Member
Sick of reading about the EU referendum?

I've been doing a bit of reading about another referendum this time in Switzerland on June 5th on the Grundeinkommenn initiative (Basic income initiative).

http://www.grundeinkommen.ch


The proposal is to pay each adult a monthly income of CHF2500 and each child CHF625. That's about £1800 and £460. This would be financed by scrapping of social fund contributions and increasing VAT amongst other things. People believe that it is affordable.

It is predicted that wages would fall (as people will in effect get a top up from the state), making Switzerland regain competitiveness and therefore boosting the economy. Many people would also have the option to go part time and enjoy more time for leisure and family.

Sounds too good to be true? It probably is and it will likely be voted down, but if it is passed, then the Swiss government is obliged to implement it. Probably 20 years ahead of it's time, robotisation needs to take hold first.

Still, an interesting debate, nonetheless.
 
Brian Eno did the BBC Music John Peel Lecture not so long ago. In it he said giving everybody a living wage worldwide, irrespective of whether they work or not, is the solution to the globe's hunger and inequality crisis. With the rise of robots, the refugee crisis in Europe will get much worse if this doesn't happen.

Eno's argument was there is more than enough money to carry this out, but some of it will have to be redistributed from the top 1%.

It's great that the Swiss have such a referendum in the pipeline. I imagine the British will be among the last to consider such a proposal in the future.

Jack
 
fay spook said:
However the bold Swiss potential plan is exciting. Isn't it being tried in Scandinavia somewhere?
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It has been taking place in one or two areas in Germany, as an experiment.

The fact that Osborne's proposals won't get anywhere near a London living wage until 2020, shows just how little the Tory party cares about the working class.

Jack
 
Seeker_UK said:
Jesus H Christ on a bike. That's getting close to what I earn a month.

I'm sorry but I begrudge anyone earning that for doing sod all. :mad:
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I'm packing my bags just as we speak. Problem is so will half of Europe if it comes to fruition.
 
fay spook said:
Then again look whats happened here (UK) with the increase in minimum wage. All the extras such as overtime and Sunday working rates have come down so some people are earning less.

However the bold Swiss potential plan is exciting. Isn't it being tried in Scandinavia somewhere?
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It shows a bit of genuine blue sky thinking for a change. Finland have talking introducing the same scheme, but their economy is desperate and they can't afford eff all.

One problem could be that people will look to reduce their working week by eg one day and that could have a detrimental impact on total output.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Jesus H Christ on a bike. That's getting close to what I earn a month.

I'm sorry but I begrudge anyone earning that for doing sod all. :mad:
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I was going to say the same, but then I realised that I actually do get nearly that for doing sod all, so I'd best button it.
 
Joe Hutch said:
I was going to say the same, but then I realised that I actually do get nearly that for doing sod all, so I'd best button it.
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It's exactly what I do now - I'm retired - but there are at least three other people toiling away to pay taxes etc to pay my pension (thank you who ever you are). If everyone decided to take the money and do sod all, how would it work?
 
Its a good step to accepting the fact that humans are fast becoming obsolete. Its either this or the top 1% just get robots to do everything for them, and somehow do away with the rest of us, i,e, another world war. If it takes, then there will be quite a change in society as we know it, expect a rise in death cults for a start, after all , what are we here for? Personally I think its a good thing, but how its handled will be key, rather than just hoping you give people their allowance and they stay in watching tv all day, it will need very active input by society, on a positive note, it will free people to do more with their lives and think and do things in radically different ways. The fact that its state controlled will I think make people more passive citizens, look at the welfare state in the UK. But whats the alternative?
 
Given the increased reliance on robotics and automation in the pursuit of corporate profit, is it not the socially responsible thing to do to tax those corporations in order to support those members of the workforce that are no longer required?
 
Seeker_UK said:
Jesus H Christ on a bike. That's getting close to what I earn a month.

I'm sorry but I begrudge anyone earning that for doing sod all. :mad:
Click to expand...

Ah yes, but the median wage is high in Switzerland (median monthly wage in 2014 was CHF6189) and the cost of living and accommodation is very high,so as a single person, it would not be enough to ensure a good standard of living. It would be subsistence level at best so you would also need to do some work.

Having said that, if you were married and had 3 kids, then you would receive above monthly average earnings so it would be possible to live on that without working.

But the Swiss people are a naturally responsible and hard working people. I suspect most would carry on working but perhaps reduce hours or do some further education.

As for half of Europe coming in, they would not give it to newly arrived people until after an e.g. 5 year qualifying period. The argument is, that as wages would fall, Switzerland would becomes a less attractive place for foreigners.
 
Here in Switzerland there are a lot of referendums. The June block has five

1.A popular initiative for a basic income.
2.A popular initiative for fair transport financing.
3.A popular initiative for public service.
4.A referendum on amendments to the medically assisted reproduction law.
5.A referendum on amendments to the federal asylum law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2016
 
NeilR said:
another referendum this time in Switzerland on June 5th on the Grundeinkommenn initiative (Basic income initiative).
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Which is of course considered a joke for the time being.

As for a 'basic income', this sounds so revolutionary. I don't know - the French have had their RMI for 30 years now, the Germans their Hartz IV, the idea is far from new. One of the reasons (in France especially) was the constant influx of citizens from the former colonies (i.e. North and West Africa), for whom it turned out to be difficult to find jobs. Switzerland is not yet there but the day will come.
 
Oh yes, I am sure it will be voted down.

But isn't this different to the examples you cite, as the payment would be made to every person irrespective of their employment or social status?
 
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