SUT recommendation for Tron Convergence MM

[Pkay]

Hi all,

I am considering getting a valve phono (MM) for the first time and would like advice on a matching SUT. Ideally it needs to be well shielded as I am in high RF environment.

I tried an early Aurealis SUT which buzzed like a swarm of bees but an EAR MC4 was fairly quiet (but at A$3k more than I want to spend). At this stage I would ideally like to keep the budget at the $2k level.

My cart is a Benz Wood SL

Benz Wood SL Specifications
Output: .4mV
Stylus: 5x120µm
Impedance: 12 ohms
Loading range: >100 ohms
Weight: 9g
Compliance: 15cu
Tracking force: 1.6-1.9g

Convergence MM Specifications
Input:- 1 x RCA (L & R)

Input Impedance:- MM 47K (48dB gain), MC 470R (68dB gain)

Optional "high gain":- MC 117R (74dB gain)

Input Sensitivity:- MM - 2 volts RMS for 5mV input. MC - 2 volts RMS for 0.5mV input

Output: Connections:- 1 x RCA (L & R)

Output Impedance:- 600 ohms

Frequency Response:- 20Hz – 20KHz (+/- 1dB)

Power Consumption:- (115v & 230v) - 17watts

Size:- (L x W x H inc feet) 335mm x 170mm x 108mm

Weight:- 3.15kgs



Thanks in advance.
Peter

 

[sunshine]

Hi Peter,

Try writing to [email protected]. He should be able to help you. Dave Slagle from Intact Audio. You may want to try Tron’s SUT, I understand that should exceed your budget.

Good luck

 

[Alun Rains]

You could try contacting Andrew Rothwell at Rothwell Audio.co,uk
He is extremely knowledgable on SUT’s and offers several models..
If he can’t help then he may be able to point yo7 in the right direction...

 

[Vinny]

Biased on one count, but being a dabbler in stages, SUTs and head amp's..........................

[FS] - Graham Slee Elevator EXP | pink fish media

Hum from SUTs is entirely down to placement, IME, you just need to keep faffing with position. That said, some SUTs are essentially immune, some a real PITA.

 

[divedeepdog]

My limited experience with suts is get a better adjustable mm/mc stage.

There’s a black art of trial and error which can get spendy.

I’d put a Vida on the list before I ran down the SUT black hole …

 

[Pkay]

My limited experience with suts is get a better adjustable mm/mc stage.

There’s a black art of trial and error which can get spendy.

I’d put a Vida on the list before I ran down the SUT black hole …

Unfortunately it's difficult to audition a Vida in Sydney.

 

[Pkay]

You could try contacting Andrew Rothwell at Rothwell Audio.co,uk
He is extremely knowledgable on SUT’s and offers several models..
If he can’t help then he may be able to point yo7 in the right direction...

Thanks I'll reach out to him.

 

[Pkay]

Has anyone tried the Auditorium A23?

 

[early]

My experience as a happy Tron Convergence owner .

I also have the moving magnet version and I find the gain a bit on the high side ( in my system ) . I played with SUT's and MC's and found the best compromise solution to be a Rothwell Audio headspace , not quite as nice sounding as some of the better SUT's I tried but not far off , and the ability to select gain and loading made it my favorite .

I found the MM Tron suited HO MC's a treat , maybe an option for the OP ? .

Finally , my system is also in a noisy enviroment and the Tron picked up all sorts of beeps , pops and whistles till I lined the plastic ( Delrin ? ) side panels with copper foil . It is now silent .

All this might not sound positive and in other systems these "problems" may not occur , but I found the Convergance is the most natural sounding phonostage I have owned ( and this includes some much more expensive stages ) and for me it was worth the little bit of effort to get it right .

 

[GT]

Something not often considered when using an external SUT is the number of connections (both mechanical and soldered) between the sensitive cartridge output and the phono input.
Note: these are for 2 channels and are considered only to the first internal connection within the Convergence. So what the signal has to travel through before it gets to the phono stage.

Cartridge to Tron Convergence MC:
4 x cartridge connections - 4 x cartridge tags + 4 x soldered connections - Internal Tonearm wire - 4 x soldered connections on tonearm socket - 4 x DIN connections - 4 x soldered connections on DIN plug - Tonearm Cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on Convergence - 4 x soldered connections from RCA socket to Convergence circuit board.
Total = 12 mechanical connections and 20 soldered connections.

Cartridge to Tron Convergence MM via an external SUT:
4 x cartridge connections - 4 x cartridge tags + 4 x soldered connections - Internal Tonearm wire - 4 x soldered connections on DIN socket - 4 x DIN connections - 4 x soldered connections on DIN plug - Tonearm Cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on SUT - 4 x soldered connections from RCA sockets to SUT primary windings - 4 x soldered connections from SUT secondary windings to SUT output RCA sockets - 2 RCA sockets on SUT - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - Second screened Interconnect cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on Convergence - 4 x soldered connections from RCA socket to Convergence circuit board.
Total = 20 mechanical connections and 36 soldered connections as well as one extra screened interconnect.

So to go the external SUT route you are adding an extra 8 mechanical connectors and 16 soldered connections, plus an extra high quality screened interconnect cable in the signal path of the most sensitive signal in audio reproduction. It begs the question as to whether it is worth it or not?

 

[myles]

Something not often considered when using an external SUT is the number of connections (both mechanical and soldered) between the sensitive cartridge output and the phono input.
Note: these are for 2 channels and are considered only to the first internal connection within the Convergence. So what the signal has to travel through before it gets to the phono stage.

Cartridge to Tron Convergence MC:
4 x cartridge connections - 4 x cartridge tags + 4 x soldered connections - Internal Tonearm wire - 4 x soldered connections on tonearm socket - 4 x DIN connections - 4 x soldered connections on DIN plug - Tonearm Cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on Convergence - 4 x soldered connections from RCA socket to Convergence circuit board.
Total = 12 mechanical connections and 20 soldered connections.

Cartridge to Tron Convergence MM via an external SUT:
4 x cartridge connections - 4 x cartridge tags + 4 x soldered connections - Internal Tonearm wire - 4 x soldered connections on DIN socket - 4 x DIN connections - 4 x soldered connections on DIN plug - Tonearm Cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on SUT - 4 x soldered connections from RCA sockets to SUT primary windings - 4 x soldered connections from SUT secondary windings to SUT output RCA sockets - 2 RCA sockets on SUT - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - Second screened Interconnect cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on Convergence - 4 x soldered connections from RCA socket to Convergence circuit board.
Total = 20 mechanical connections and 36 soldered connections as well as one extra screened interconnect.

So to go the external SUT route you are adding an extra 8 mechanical connectors and 16 soldered connections, plus an extra high quality screened interconnect cable in the signal path of the most sensitive signal in audio reproduction. It begs the question as to whether it is worth it or not?

What's to say the first twelve/twenty connections haven't already done the damage!

 

[GT]

What's to say the first twelve/twenty connections haven't already done the damage!

They will have done damage. The greater the number of connections/soldered joints the more the signal will be degraded.

 

[GT]

Finally, my system is also in a noisy enviroment and the Tron picked up all sorts of beeps , pops and whistles till I lined the plastic ( Delrin ? ) side panels with copper foil . It is now silent.

Just for information, I have built the Convergence Phono with a full 6mm thick machined aluminium case. It makes zero difference to RF pick up. It is not built the way it is for cheapness, because it costs 3 times more to machine the side panels out of a composite material.

 

[myles]

They will have done damage. The greater the number of connections/soldered joints the more the signal will be degraded.

The amount of connections is an interesting subject - thank you for bringing it to our attention. I dread to think how many there are in my kit!

 

[Bairnstorm]

When I used a Rothwell MCL in to a valve MM stage with a Benz Wood SL I felt there was too much gain. Using a Benz Ref which is lower output and it works well.

Interesting comments from GT though.

 

[Pkay]

@RossB had generously lent me his EAR MC4 and Tron to try. While the gain was high it wasn’t too noisy. It really is a great combination. I also tried it with a very basic SUT which I thought was a bit more neutral but really noisy. That’s why I’m trying to find something in the middle price wise that won’t overload the system.

I’m keen on the flexibility of having a SUT MM combination because I have a Stanton 881s that I like to occasionally play.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

There is virtually zero possibility of overload with a valve phono stage, no matter what the SUT is. It may have such high output that the vol control range is unusable but the phono stage itself will be fine so the output can simply be attenuated.

Don't overlook head amps! Much more versatile and flexible than SUT's and can sound just as good or even better.

 

[Alun Rains]

When I used a Rothwell MCL in to a valve MM stage with a Benz Wood SL I felt there was too much gain. Using a Benz Ref which is lower output and it works well.

Interesting comments from GT though.

I am using a Rothwell MCL into an MM phono-stage which gives me a total of 62db of gain. Works well for me but my MM phono-stage only outputs 36db of gain which is lower than many. I have experienced zero hum whatsoever.
Perhaps the Rothwell MCX would have been better for you than the MCL which has a lower gain output.
Careful cartridge,phono-stage and SUT matching is absolutely essential...
Pleased that you are enjoying your Benz ref...

 

[Alun Rains]

Something not often considered when using an external SUT is the number of connections (both mechanical and soldered) between the sensitive cartridge output and the phono input.
Note: these are for 2 channels and are considered only to the first internal connection within the Convergence. So what the signal has to travel through before it gets to the phono stage.

Cartridge to Tron Convergence MC:
4 x cartridge connections - 4 x cartridge tags + 4 x soldered connections - Internal Tonearm wire - 4 x soldered connections on tonearm socket - 4 x DIN connections - 4 x soldered connections on DIN plug - Tonearm Cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on Convergence - 4 x soldered connections from RCA socket to Convergence circuit board.
Total = 12 mechanical connections and 20 soldered connections.

Cartridge to Tron Convergence MM via an external SUT:
4 x cartridge connections - 4 x cartridge tags + 4 x soldered connections - Internal Tonearm wire - 4 x soldered connections on DIN socket - 4 x DIN connections - 4 x soldered connections on DIN plug - Tonearm Cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on SUT - 4 x soldered connections from RCA sockets to SUT primary windings - 4 x soldered connections from SUT secondary windings to SUT output RCA sockets - 2 RCA sockets on SUT - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - Second screened Interconnect cable - 4 x soldered connections on RCA plugs - 2 RCA sockets on Convergence - 4 x soldered connections from RCA socket to Convergence circuit board.
Total = 20 mechanical connections and 36 soldered connections as well as one extra screened interconnect.

So to go the external SUT route you are adding an extra 8 mechanical connectors and 16 soldered connections, plus an extra high quality screened interconnect cable in the signal path of the most sensitive signal in audio reproduction. It begs the question as to whether it is worth it or not?

You have very valid comments.. However in practice, I have personally not experienced any problems since introducing an SUT into my system..

 

[GT]

You have very valid comments.. However in practice, I have personally not experienced any problems since introducing an SUT into my system..

Its swings and roundabouts, What you might gain with an external SUT you will lose something with all the added connections in circuit. Also, some simply don't want all the added complexity of extra boxes and cables. Some just want a one box solution. Fortunately I offer both options...