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Supatrac: the world's best tonearm?

david ellwood said:
The timing and tune are all over the place.
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Can you be specific? Is there a particular moment or bar where you think this is most obvious. I want to try to hear what you're hearing.

So far I only hear a very slightly different presentation, as I would expect from two cartridges with a x3 price factor from the same manufacturer and two very differently designed tone-arms. I actually think it's remarkable how similar the two recordings sound. The SAT must be a very good arm. I'm not even sure that I could reliably abx them. Like everyone else, I don't yet know which recording is which.
 
BTW, when I first switched to a much more time-accurate deck I found that very familiar records sounded wrong. I had such a clear idea in my head of how it should sound that when I heard it reproduced more accurately my expectations were disappointed. I had to relearn those recordings, but when I did they became much more accessible and enjoyable. They were demystified, and my pleasure in them was greater. I could more easily hear why the musicians were bothering. Meanwhile, music with which I was not familiar invariably became more interesting to me, even the first time I heard it.

Every time we hear a recording, especially on new kit, our expectations are reset. At Whittlebury last year I listened to a master tape played on a Studer. The range between the subtle nuanced sounds and the hard, dynamic, even uncomfortable ones was very great and I realised that some systems may pull the punches somewhat in order to make the nasty sound nice.

I want to hear "warts and all". If I don't like the record, I can find a better one.
 
sonddek said:
Can you be specific? Is there a particular moment or bar where you think this is most obvious. I want to try to hear what you're hearing.

So far I only hear a very slightly different presentation, as I would expect from two cartridges with a x3 price factor from the same manufacturer and two very differently designed tone-arms. I actually think it's remarkable how similar the two recordings sound. The SAT must be a very good arm. I'm not even sure that I could reliably abx them. Like everyone else, I don't yet know which recording is which.
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A very slightly different presentation is what everyone else is hearing too.
 
For me, they are very similar and I could live with either. To my ears A has a little more bloom which might attract its sound to some. Beyond that, I don't think there's much in it.
 
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After a few listens I have a slight preference for A although they are quite close And I also could happily live with either. B seems a little softer, but perhaps with a little more front to back depth. For me A is a bit more dynamic and detailed and if I listen to both samples all the through A seems the more “musically“ convincing. Caveats Sound Cloud and headphones limitations and The slight difference in volume that is difficult to match exactly on an I-Pad.
 
Even without the use of headphones, I have a clear preference for A - the piano solo is easier for my brain to process and the music just flows better.

Wish spoilsport Fremer would identify the samples as I am sorely tempted to place an order for the Supatrac and this knowledge would help immensely!
 
sonddek said:
Can you be specific? Is there a particular moment or bar where you think this is most obvious. I want to try to hear what you're hearing.

So far I only hear a very slightly different presentation, as I would expect from two cartridges with a x3 price factor from the same manufacturer and two very differently designed tone-arms. I actually think it's remarkable how similar the two recordings sound. The SAT must be a very good arm. I'm not even sure that I could reliably abx them. Like everyone else, I don't yet know which recording is which.
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One specific example would be the piano solo between 0:25 and 0:40 where the timing is clearly better on A... you can really hear the subtle pauses between notes and how the timing moves against the background drums.

I'm definitely agreeing with David Ellwood on this one... hopefully A is the Supatrac 👍
 
In the comments under the review itself people seem to be favouring B. Interesting. I do see what David means about A having some kind of easier musical insight, but I still find them both very good. I'm looking forward to finding out. Either way, the fact that it's not that easy to distinguish the €90,000 arm from a £3000 arm with a lesser cartridge gives me optimism for the future of the SUPA bearing.
 
Using the same cartridge in both arms would have made for a better test, but I'm still pinning my hopes on A.
 
sonddek said:
BTW, when I first switched to a much more time-accurate deck I found that very familiar records sounded wrong. I had such a clear idea in my head of how it should sound that when I heard it reproduced more accurately my expectations were disappointed. I had to relearn those recordings, but when I did they became much more accessible and enjoyable. They were demystified, and my pleasure in them was greater. I could more easily hear why the musicians were bothering. Meanwhile, music with which I was not familiar invariably became more interesting to me, even the first time I heard it.

Every time we hear a recording, especially on new kit, our expectations are reset. At Whittlebury last year I listened to a master tape played on a Studer. The range between the subtle nuanced sounds and the hard, dynamic, even uncomfortable ones was very great and I realised that some systems may pull the punches somewhat in order to make the nasty sound nice.

I want to hear "warts and all". If I don't like the record, I can find a better one.
Click to expand...

Having recently become a DD deck owner, my instinct is to agree with this. But - and it's a significant caveat - I'm not actually convinced that DD decks are actually much more "time-accurate" - at least in the sense that I feel a lot of what I'm hearing isn't actually on the master and is in large part a consequence of what is driving the platter.

Anyway, FWIW I was impressed with the Fremer video and the idea of the arm. As a P10 owner, and ex-unipivot (Aro) owner, I'm a bit pressed to imagine something better on my deck than an RB3000, but am intrigued.
 
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