Suitable bearing oil for Oracle Delphi

[sergeauckland]

From the Linn setup manual in the section of "Useless, Dangerous, and Foolish Modifications of the LP12":

"The use of record weights or clamps. ... Weights can destroy the main bearing, which is already working at a pressure of two and a half tons per square inch. Adding a two pound weight to the platter increases that pressure by twenty percent. Whatever improvement you may believe you hear will be immaterial as soon as the spindle drills through the thrust plate of the bearing"

"Other oils in the main bearing. As mentioned earlier, the bearing is subject to two and a half tons pressure per square inch. Linn oil is specifically formulated to eliminate the microscopic welds that can occur at that pressure. The long term use of any other oil can cause damage to the bearing"

Add that to YNWOAN's very comprehensive post above, and I'd say you'd want to be a little cautious before lobbing in any old oil...

Except that there's not 2 and a half tons of pressure at the sides, only at the thrust-plate. There, there may or may not be any oil between the bottom of the bearing shaft and the thrust plate. YNWOAN suggest not, Linn say their special oil isn't forced out by the pressure.

Frankly, in my own case, turntable oils are not something I obsess about.

S.

 

[YNWOAN]

Frankly, I don't see by what mechanism lubrication can be present at the point of vertical support. The forces acting upon that point, to push lubrication away, are significantly higher than those acting to force lubrication between them. In addition, circulatory motion of the oil bath is very slow, much slower than most bearings in engineering. Even those bearings that use a groove in the liner, or shaft, to encourage circulation only really act upon the lateral surfaces and, if the correct viscosity of lubrication is used, the tolerances of the bearing parts are sufficiently constant and sufficient lubrication is used, such a mechanism should not really be necessary (and may even increase noise).

 

[paskinn]

So me using 'three in one' oil to lubricate my sme motor bearing might not be the brightest of ideas! The main bearing is said not to need lubrication once initially installed. Haven't heard of an SME bearing failing through wear...has anyone?
Come to think of it, turntable bearing failure seems quite rare, although I did have a Pink Triangle one fail many years ago.

 

[Grenadier_45]

So me using 'three in one' oil to lubricate my sme motor bearing might not be the brightest of ideas! The main bearing is said not to need lubrication once initially installed. Haven't heard of an SME bearing failing through wear...has anyone?
Come to think of it, turntable bearing failure seems quite rare, although I did have a Pink Triangle one fail many years ago.

I'd drop SME an email and ask. Like Serge, I don't obsess over what lubrication to use - I use Nottingham Analogue oil in my Hyperspace, and Linn oil in the LP12. It's not like you need loads of it - it's easiest to let the manufacturer make sure the oil is fit for purpose - i.e. protects against undue wear and doesn't attack any of the materials used in the bearing.

 

[YNWOAN]

SME, use a variant of the bearing I describe and this allows the gap between inner and outer elements to be controlled. My advice is that owners adhere to the recommendations of the manufacturers of the specific turntable that they use and refrain from drawing parallels between entirely different systems (or sweeping generalisations).

edit: Absolute bearing failure, as such, is extremely unlikely; however, the performance of a bearing can be significantly compromised very much earlier than absolute failure (indeed, a bearing could easily be producing very much more noise than intended a long, long time before absolute failure - which may never occur). I would also add that the bearing of a turntable motor is quite different, in all respects, than that of a platter main bearing.

 

[Nascar03]

I know this is an older conversation and I enjoyed reading the content.
Thanx.
My question is about my ORACLE DELPHI MKI..
I’ve owned this table for 10 years, my buddy purchased it new in the ‘80s.
I am ordering a new belt as mine appears to be slipping... age!
When I removed the belt I reinserted the platter and gave it a spin.
It didn’t seem to spin as free as I expected?
I removed the platter again and removed the bearing assembly, dismantled, wiped clean and reassembled.
The ORACLE book says it is ‘permanently lubricated’.
It still spins with some resistance...maybe I’m expecting too much.
I expected it to spin a few revolutions with only a slight push!
I then took it apart and wiped the spindle & barrel with MOBIL1 synthetic oil.
Reassembled with same results..
Disassembled again and used a wipe of 3in1 oil.. no real improvement.
The point of the spindle rides on a ceramic pad at the bottom of the spindle ‘barrel’.
Do you think this should be totally immersed in oil at the bottom?
I wonder how much to put in there?? Any ORACLE people here.
Thank you for reading this.
Graham

 

[banjoman]

I know this is an older conversation and I enjoyed reading the content.
Thanx.
My question is about my ORACLE DELPHI MKI..
I’ve owned this table for 10 years, my buddy purchased it new in the ‘80s.
I am ordering a new belt as mine appears to be slipping... age!
When I removed the belt I reinserted the platter and gave it a spin.
It didn’t seem to spin as free as I expected?
I removed the platter again and removed the bearing assembly, dismantled, wiped clean and reassembled.
The ORACLE book says it is ‘permanently lubricated’.
It still spins with some resistance...maybe I’m expecting too much.
I expected it to spin a few revolutions with only a slight push!
I then took it apart and wiped the spindle & barrel with MOBIL1 synthetic oil.
Reassembled with same results..
Disassembled again and used a wipe of 3in1 oil.. no real improvement.
The point of the spindle rides on a ceramic pad at the bottom of the spindle ‘barrel’.
Do you think this should be totally immersed in oil at the bottom?
I wonder how much to put in there?? Any ORACLE people here.
Thank you for reading this.
Graham

Yes - its designed to be immersed in oil. So you need to feel the cylindrical trough roughly a third to the top and then install the platter with bearing, A bit of oil should spill out - means its full immersed. just wipe the excess oil away and you are good. If no oil spills out then put in a bit more to make sure you have enough to immerse the bearing

 

[banjoman]

Do not use the TT without the oil bath. You will ruin the bearing

 

[Mike P]

Here's my two pence worth in a post I wrote some years ago. I'm still using the same ISO32 grade fully synthetic oil in my TD125mk2.

https://www.audio-forums.com/articles/oil-for-bronze-turntable-bearings.16/

 

[Nascar03]

Thanx a bunch for the responses..
Can anyone with a Oracle tell me if the platter should spin quite freely, without the belt?
I don’t know anyone locally with an Oracle that I can view.
The next thing i’m Looking at is a new motor and control box upgrade, most likely ORIGINE LIVE.

Graham
Langley, BC.

 

[Si74]

I used J7's oil in my Oracle Mk 11 for years with no problems. I very seldom play vinyl these days and was having speed issues so thinking too much oil is better than too little, replenished with 3 in 1. Total p.i.t.a. to get the platter to settle and no way I could get it to expel excess oil. Very distant memory tells me the instruction manual suggests very little oil is required in the bearing. Must dig out the manuals, set up procedure. As to your spinning question, mine is reticent to spin freely compared to the many other tables I've owned but does not seem to affect replay (at the moment). Will post again when I locate the manuals. I pray my Pabst keeps working, if it stops I'll be speaking to Arthur at the Funkfirm, as my experiences with Origin motors/controllers, well we'll leave it at that.

 

[Dougie2404]

You right when you intimate that the Origin motors ar useless, in my experience the only time they work correctly is when they're not connected to anything, couldn't pull the skin off custard.

 

[Si74]

Well looked out the Oracle manuals, quote:
"Before first use and after cleaning, spread 1 or 2 drops of light lubricant, like sewing macchine oil, over the spindle with a lint-free cloth. Pour a few drops of oil on a cotton swab and lubricate the inner surface of the bushings in the bearing assembly"

Not overly specific but to my mind doesn't suggest a lot of oil is needed.

 

[Si74]

As an aside, when I first got my Oracle from the States it would not hold a steady speed. Turned out to be the ribbon cables from the front switches to the control board. Pulling the ends out and cleaning with de-oxit cured the problem so I assume it was oxidization causing bad connections. No kudos to me as it was an ex BBC engineer who sussed this as soon as I mentioned the problem

 

[drummerman]

I used Mobil 1 which I had for years in the garage in my decks against certain advise.

Worked absolutely fine as far as I was aware, no issues.

I am sure a zillion other oils are good too.

 

[Nascar03]

As an aside, when I first got my Oracle from the States it would not hold a steady speed. Turned out to be the ribbon cables from the front switches to the control board. Pulling the ends out and cleaning with de-oxit cured the problem so I assume it was oxidization causing bad connections. No kudos to me as it was an ex BBC engineer who sussed this as soon as I mentioned the problem

I suspect the wiring as well.. I have had intermittent on/off while playing and suspect the switch(s) need cleaning.
My problem is that one of the screws holding the side pieces on the control panel is seized and may need to be drilled out!.

Thanx to all for the lube suggestions...
And thanx for the re-motor concerns. I will do some more research.

Graham