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Suitable bearing oil for Oracle Delphi

banjoman

pfm Member
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That's the oil I use and it's very good. When Johnny from Audio Origami put it in my TT, the platter began to drift round at the slightest touch, and I mean the slightest touch! The oil might not be zero friction, but it won't be far off.
 
That's the oil I use and it's very good. When Johnny from Audio Origami put it in my TT, the platter began to drift round at the slightest touch, and I mean the slightest touch! The oil might not be zero friction, but it won't be far off.

Thanks.
Have had very good experience with Audio origami so far.
Will give it a go

Cheers
 
Have one of these oracle kits myself , not got round to fitting it yet on my delphi
oil supplied in a pre-filled medical syringe no details on the oil inside
they probably buy off the shelf in 5gallons drums and fill them themselves
 
I use J7's oil in my Delphi.
Don't use Linn oil as the liners don't like the graphite in it:-(
and don't overfill it.
I have all the set up manuals if you don't have or can't get them on
vinylengine.
 
Have one of these oracle kits myself , not got round to fitting it yet on my delphi
oil supplied in a pre-filled medical syringe no details on the oil inside
they probably buy off the shelf in 5gallons drums and fill them themselves

I did actually buy one of these kits recently on a trip to the US. Used it to replace springs, belt, etc.. but had a mishap with the oil in the syringe and lost most of it!!

Bought the audio origami oil - will see how it does
 
I remember, when I first bought my Oracle Delphi in 1981, being told to use very light and thin oil. Afew years ago, I purchased the maintenance kit and looking at the syringe it says it's made by a company called Medisca and it's content is a honey colored and not so thin, but rather dense, oil. I would say the content of the syringe is good for about 2-3 oil changes. Nevertheless, and to answer your question, I think both the company mentioned above and sewing machine oil, which I have used, will do fine.
 
Judging by the amount of bearing wear we hear about maybe the manufacturers specs are wrong. A thinnish oil with high ZDDP content would be about right i suspect. i'll look out my oil and compare it with some Millers CFS 10W-50.
 
Considering the pressure the bearing is under (not a lot), the rotational speed (not a lot) and the temperature (pretty constant), I would have thought that any light machine oil, such as sewing machine oil would be fine.

Why do we obsess about such trivia?

S.
 
Yes, we obsess. I can't believe that a certain model of TT requires a "special" oil that is superior to good quality car engine oil. Especially if you think that a car engine can spin at 7,000 RPM, with heat, enormous pressures, explosions, etc.
But what I have discovered, is that TT bearings will require a lighter or heavier oil depending on how much play there is in the bearing. I've got a TD126 that has no discernible play so I use Mobil 1 0-30. And a TD125 that has a little bit of play, but with thicker 10-50 Mobil 1 that play disappears.
Both spin as well as one could wish.
 
Some makers use gear oil, ep90 and it lasts forever...

Squeezing the oil from five snakes works better for some reason though?:D
 
Considering the pressure the bearing is under (not a lot), the rotational speed (not a lot) and the temperature (pretty constant), I would have thought that any light machine oil, such as sewing machine oil would be fine.

Why do we obsess about such trivia?

S.

Hi Serge,
more to the point is why do the bearings wear / acquire room?

The oil looks like a generic cheap hydraulic oil XX15 and is sold for a fortune and often patently doesn't do the job in some respects.

I've got a twenty year old car that's done 150k miles and the internals are as good as new despite far higher temperatures and stress. A good synthetic should be stable at room temperatures for years.

If there is any wear it's a design or lubrication problem.
 
Hi Serge,
more to the point is why do the bearings wear / acquire room?

The oil looks like a generic cheap hydraulic oil XX15 and is sold for a fortune and often patently doesn't do the job in some respects.

I've got a twenty year old car that's done 150k miles and the internals are as good as new despite far higher temperatures and stress. A good synthetic should be stable at room temperatures for years.

If there is any wear it's a design or lubrication problem.

Maybe they do not acquire play, but simply have some play to begin with. A minimum of play is necessary, of course, or there would not be room for the oil between the bearing surfaces. So perhaps different turntables, or different single examples of the same turntable may have a few hundredths of a millimeter more or less play.
Maybe they also acquire play over many, many years, but at 33 RPM it would take some time if there is always a film of oil there.
 
As I wrote before, in my limited experience a good quality oil like Mobil 1, in a grade that will just take up the play in the bearing surfaces, is fine. Selling the stuff pre-loaded in syringes seems like the kind of fetishism that we obsessive audiophiles fall for like real suckers.
 
Maybe they do not acquire play, but simply have some play to begin with. A minimum of play is necessary, of course, or there would not be room for the oil between the bearing surfaces. So perhaps different turntables, or different single examples of the same turntable may have a few hundredths of a millimeter more or less play.
Maybe they also acquire play over many, many years, but at 33 RPM it would take some time if there is always a film of oil there.

Hi Paul,
agree with that, the amount of designed play will determine correct viscosity, much as some low tolerance engines can run a 0W-20.

In theory if lubrication and design is correct the metal surfaces will never touch and thus never wear.
.
 
Comparisons between a motorcar engine and a turntable main bearing should not be made as they share very little in common. In a motorcar engine, there are no bearings that are constructed in the same way as that of the majority of turnable bearings. In addition surface velocity of moving parts is high (certainly compared to a turntable) and all parts are subject to significant heat cycling. Finally, and most importantly, the oil in a car engine is actively pressurised. In comparison, most turntables use, what is essentially, the same kind of bearing; that is a shaft running in a journal (to support lateral load) and a point (or, more accurately, a radiused surface) bearing against a thrust pad (metal, jewel, or Teflon etc.) to support vertical load. Surface velocity of the surface of the rotating shaft is very low - lower than the vast majority of bearings, whilst surface velocity of the point contact element is extremely low. The load on the lateral load supporting element varies from one turntable to another depending on the weight of the platter and how well balanced the platter is, together with how perpendicular the bearing element is relative to the platter mass (also, the geometry of that supported mass relative to the bearing). In comparison, the vertical load is very much higher than that of the lateral load; the lateral load sees a relatively high surface area, whilst the vertical forces are supported by a very small area of contact (much smaller than any bearing surface in a motorcar engine for example). Despite the high pressure/low surface area contact of the vertical support, turntable oil is not actively pressurised and relies on atmospheric pressure. In many ways, it is more appropriate to think of a turntable bearing as two separate elements.

As mentioned earlier, in a previous post, a gap must exist between bearing surfaces for the lubrication (usually oil) to exist within; the smaller the gap, the thiner the viscosity of the oil needs to be and the tighter the manufacturing tolerances of said bearing need to be. In addition, whilst the bearing is not susceptible to heat cycling in the same way as a motorcar engine it is still susceptible to unequal expansion of the shaft and sleeve elements. In very low gap bearings this can be a real issue and such bearings often have both elements made from the same metal, or materials with very similar expansion coefficients (the Spiral Groove is an example of the former) and in the case of Brinkmann the temperature of the bearing is actively controlled for just these reasons.

There are a number of issues regarding turntable oil; one is that it couples the bearing in the lateral plane - how tight this coupling is depends on the relative viscosity of the oil compared to the relative size of the gap between the bearing surfaces. In addition, two further issues must be considered; one is the shear forces acting within the oil and the other is how the oil adheres to the bearing surfaces - these are independent, but closely related, aspects. Shear forces in the oil (this assumes the oil remains in contact with the bearing surfaces) creates drag, this is not the same as friction as that implies surface to surface contact. This drag acts directly on the rotating inertia of the platter, the tension of the platter relative to the motor and the load applied to the motor - these aspects should not be underrated and can have a significant impact on motor dynamics (more so than electrical power supplies, for example).

Considering the vertical support aspect; bear in mind the oil is only under atmospheric pressure and that the effective pressure of the the bearing elements, at the actual point of contact, is significantly higher than atmospheric pressure. As a result, at the actual point (or area) of contact, no actual oil exists between the surfaces. One should also consider the construction of turntable bearings. In essence, when one considers the vertical support element, there are two surfaces turning (grinding) against each other (albeit slowly) - over time, the harder of the two materials will wear the softer of the two (such can often be seen when one is an extremely hard material like ceramic) - this will only be at the contact point, which is very small. How much of an issue this is depends on the specific materials used and the weight the bearing supports - the actual oil used does not make much, if any, difference to this aspect.

Some synthetic polymer materials used for bearing liners are self lubricating but are also hygroscopic and this means that they are not dimensionally stable - this can make a big difference with those bearings.

Some bearings use Oilite sleeves (or similar), Such materials have lubricants embedded within them. However, if you speak to the manufactures of such materials they will tell you that the operating principle is thus; high surface velocities create friction, this friction generates heat, the heat draws the lubricant to the surface of the bearing liner and lubricates the surfaces. If velocity between the components is very low (as it is in a turntable), insufficient heat is generated and the material does not lubricate as intended. In addition, such bearings are not intended to be used in an oil bath.

In summary, the specific viscosity f the lubricant used can make a significant difference to the turntable; both because of the way it mechanically couples the platter to the chassis and in the way it loads the drive system. By the same token, how much oils there is in ones turntable bearing can also make a significant difference. Many bearings use two bushings, one at the bottom of the shaft and one at the top. If insufficient oil is used, the top bushing is effectively run dry, or partially dry; this will make quite a big difference to how much drag the bearing applies.

Initially, it may seem counterintuitive but a very free spinning bearing is not necessarily a good thing with regard to turntable bearings.
________________________

Sorry, rather an epic!!
 
Sorry about the length Paul; by the end, even I got bored writing it! To be honest, I could have gone on even more, but there's only so much one can take (both writer and reader :)).
 
Considering the pressure the bearing is under (not a lot), the rotational speed (not a lot) and the temperature (pretty constant), I would have thought that any light machine oil, such as sewing machine oil would be fine.

Why do we obsess about such trivia?

S.

From the Linn setup manual in the section of "Useless, Dangerous, and Foolish Modifications of the LP12":

"The use of record weights or clamps. ... Weights can destroy the main bearing, which is already working at a pressure of two and a half tons per square inch. Adding a two pound weight to the platter increases that pressure by twenty percent. Whatever improvement you may believe you hear will be immaterial as soon as the spindle drills through the thrust plate of the bearing"

"Other oils in the main bearing. As mentioned earlier, the bearing is subject to two and a half tons pressure per square inch. Linn oil is specifically formulated to eliminate the microscopic welds that can occur at that pressure. The long term use of any other oil can cause damage to the bearing"

Add that to YNWOAN's very comprehensive post above, and I'd say you'd want to be a little cautious before lobbing in any old oil...
 


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