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Sports car chat

Getting back away from dull old EVs, I'm just back from a week doing the North Coast 500 with five friends and it was a truly magnificent experience that I would heartily recommend to anyone.

The 'support car' Nissan X-Trail was brilliant for carrying our 'stuff' but it didn't attract much interest. The other two cars we took did, however!

TklwAj5.jpg
 
wacko said:
Well maybe... a sign of the times is one of the best sports saloons (Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio) going electric next year. Will there be all parts for the legacy ICE car in 2035 ? Hmmm...
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Alfa - going electric? Maybe on the back of flatbed milk float. . .

😁

John
 
Beobloke said:
Getting back away from dull old EVs, I'm just back from a week doing the North Coast 500 with five friends and it was a truly magnificent experience that I would heartily recommend to anyone.

The 'support car' Nissan X-Trail was brilliant for carrying our 'stuff' but it didn't attract much interest. The other two cars we took did, however!

TklwAj5.jpg
Click to expand...
I shall be doing the NC500 in July...going solo and wild camping. My wife and the kids will be abroad and I fancy a wee adventure.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
Yep.

As an example, there’s a choice of Porsches Taycans out there, under five years old, average mileage, under £45k. That’s a 4.0 second 0-60 Porsche, for £5k less than the price of a new Civic Type R…

Why?
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I've driven a Taycan. It's pretty cool

I would like to know what the service costs are and if anyone actually gives a shit whether they are Porsche stamped, specialist stamped or just Halfords stamped? If the servicing nightmare conundrum is removed, I think a Taycan is an attractive proposition. My ex crumbled on her 11 year old 997.2 that had full Porsche service history. The quote was 3,400 euros and it included the replacement of a fire extinguisher at about 200 euros. She got it done at a specialist for 1800 euros. It was a bigger decision for her because in France I don't think think specialists are held in the same regard as they are in UK. Anyway, I assume a Porsche Taycan service would be in the hundreds? And anyway, why bother, there is no engine. Take it to a specialist and we could be down to 3-400?
 
There are cooling systems to maintain, brakes etc, air condition, any damage especially underneath… I dunno really.

The killers are, I think, insurance costs and battery replacement costs. If the insurance cost starts to wipe out anny energy cost savings, it becomes a pointless car.

Edit: looks like a combination of rapidly advancing tech and the delayed effect of initial tax incentives to get the rich beta testers to buy/lease them. Add those to a reluctant used market, and I suppose losing 50% in four years is as expected.
 
Tony Lockhart said:
There are cooling systems to maintain, brakes etc, air condition, any damage especially underneath… I dunno really.

The killers are, I think, insurance costs and battery replacement costs. If the insurance cost starts to wipe out anny energy cost savings, it becomes a pointless car.

Edit: looks like a combination of rapidly advancing tech and the delayed effect of initial tax incentives to get the rich beta testers to buy/lease them. Add those to a reluctant used market, and I suppose losing 50% in four years is as expected.
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I think you're absolutely right.

And there's no way I'm buying a 3 or 4 year old electric car, heading into an uncertain market for when I've had it another 2/3 years. Not a snowball's....
 
Ginger said:
I think you're absolutely right.

And there's no way I'm buying a 3 or 4 year old electric car, heading into an uncertain market for when I've had it another 2/3 years. Not a snowball's....
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The batteries will probably last ok, but with tech advancing so fast, people who use their own money get cold feet.
 
richardg said:
I've driven a Taycan. It's pretty cool

I would like to know what the service costs are and if anyone actually gives a shit whether they are Porsche stamped, specialist stamped or just Halfords stamped? If the servicing nightmare conundrum is removed, I think a Taycan is an attractive proposition. My ex crumbled on her 11 year old 997.2 that had full Porsche service history. The quote was 3,400 euros and it included the replacement of a fire extinguisher at about 200 euros. She got it done at a specialist for 1800 euros. It was a bigger decision for her because in France I don't think think specialists are held in the same regard as they are in UK. Anyway, I assume a Porsche Taycan service would be in the hundreds? And anyway, why bother, there is no engine. Take it to a specialist and we could be down to 3-400?
Click to expand...

I believe a service plan covering two services over four years at OPC is about £1400 - but i have heard of first service charges of £1200

FYI major service on my 911 was about £1100 and i declined the optional spark plug change.......(an exttra £700).
 
richardg said:
I've driven a Taycan. It's pretty cool

I would like to know what the service costs are and if anyone actually gives a shit whether they are Porsche stamped, specialist stamped or just Halfords stamped? If the servicing nightmare conundrum is removed, I think a Taycan is an attractive proposition. My ex crumbled on her 11 year old 997.2 that had full Porsche service history. The quote was 3,400 euros and it included the replacement of a fire extinguisher at about 200 euros. She got it done at a specialist for 1800 euros. It was a bigger decision for her because in France I don't think think specialists are held in the same regard as they are in UK. Anyway, I assume a Porsche Taycan service would be in the hundreds? And anyway, why bother, there is no engine. Take it to a specialist and we could be down to 3-400?
Click to expand...
You need very specialist equipment to work on EV's plus a lot of training. You need a dedicated area cordoned off from the rest of the workshop plus the engineers need protective clothing and a hoop on the rear of their overalls so if they make contact with the high voltage battery they can be hoisted off the car by a long pole with a hook on it, as DC voltages are 400-800 volts and can supply very large amounts of current. Check out what happened at the official Audi dealership garage in Swindon. If there was a real horror story about EV's this is it!!!
I wonder how many small independant garages will want to get involved with this?

EV servicing mainly involves checking fluids but the main job is checking the condition of the cells in the battery for failures or degradation. 8 years is about their maximum life, less if fast charging is used a lot. When new batteries are required they outweigh what the car is worth. Example: a new battery for the Hyundai ioniq 5 is £52,000. Check out what the retail price of a new Iconic 5 is...

And the governments call this green...
 
I've done part of that NC500 route in a decent car. Have to say the roads were so plagued with slow-moving (and not always well-driven) camper-vans that we abandoned the official route somewhere after Durness and made our way back South down some of the roads less-travelled in the interior.

That was much better.
 
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Tony Lockhart said:
There are cooling systems to maintain, brakes etc, air condition, any damage especially underneath… I dunno really.

The killers are, I think, insurance costs and battery replacement costs. If the insurance cost starts to wipe out anny energy cost savings, it becomes a pointless car.

Edit: looks like a combination of rapidly advancing tech and the delayed effect of initial tax incentives to get the rich beta testers to buy/lease them. Add those to a reluctant used market, and I suppose losing 50% in four years is as expected.
Click to expand...
Pre Covid it was the norm for standard cars to halve in value roughly every 3 years. This held true in the 90s, noughties, etc. Bad depreciating cars, maybe more, this included superstars in the early stages. Better cars, say a Golf GTi in the day, maybe up to 4 years to halve. So a new £16k car was £8k (dealer) after 3 years, £4k after 6. It got hazy after that because mileage and condition count more. But halving every 3 was a decent model up to 2015 at least. Covid screwed it all up, God knows now. Cars are lasting longer, prices are up and the £1000 car that you could use for 2-3 years for £300 servicing, repairs and MoT each year has for the moment disappeared. Porsches have been bucking the trend for 10 years now, it seems. Rough ones used to be £5k.
 
gintonic said:
it is a brilliant journey - we took the sleeper to Inverness and picked up a hire car then flew back from Inverness

planned route3 by uh_simon, on Flickr
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I did this years ago and its good fun but you certainly need a car with some good compliance in the suspension and a bit of protection on the front for stone chips as the road surfaces are not great on those narrow and winding roads. Plan to do about 60 miles a day to make sure you get time to enjoy the amazing scenery...
 
GT said:
You need very specialist equipment to work on EV's plus a lot of training. You need a dedicated area cordoned off from the rest of the workshop plus the engineers need protective clothing and a hoop on the rear of their overalls so if they make contact with the high voltage battery they can be hoisted off the car by a long pole with a hook on it, as DC voltages are 400-800 volts and can supply very large amounts of current. Check out what happened at the official Audi dealership garage in Swindon. If there was a real horror story about EV's this is it!!!
I wonder how many garages will want

EV servicing mainly involves checking fluids but the main job is checking the condition cells in the battery for failures or degradation. 8 years is about their maximum life, less if fast charging is used a lot. When new batteries are required they outweigh what the car is worth. EG: a new battery for the Hyundai ioniq 5 is £52,000. Check out what the retail price of a new Iconic 5 is...

And the governments call this green...
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There are already specialists who repair hybrid and EV batteries. Funnily enough, when £52k is at stake, car repairers are prepared to do quite a lot of work. You don't need to replace the whole battery in a hybrid or an EV any more than you have to replace the entire engine because the camshaft is worn out.
 
GT said:
I did this years ago and its good fun but you certainly need a car with some good compliance in the suspension and a bit of protection on the front for stone chips as the road surfaces are not great on those narrow and winding roads. Plan to do about 60 miles a day to make sure you get time to enjoy the amazing scenery...
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Plan ahead too. Came across this in the only fuel stop for about 50 miles in any direction, in the @rse end of nowhere :)

sh6idcnl.jpg
 
GT said:
I did this years ago and its good fun but you certainly need a car with some good compliance in the suspension and a bit of protection on the front for stone chips as the road surfaces are not great on those narrow and winding roads. Plan to do about 60 miles a day to make sure you get time to enjoy the amazing scenery...
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Really? I do 60 miles a day on my bicycle tours. I'm not Eddie Merckx either. 30 miles in the morning, 3 hours. Lunch. Same in the afternoon. Beer, shower. Another beer, dinner. It's not a bad way to see the world.
 
stevec67 said:
There are already specialists who repair hybrid and EV batteries. Funnily enough, when £52k is at stake, car repairers are prepared to do quite a lot of work. You don't need to replace the whole battery in a hybrid or an EV any more than you have to replace the entire engine because the camshaft is worn out.
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Well let hope so...
 
stevec67 said:
Really? I do 60 miles a day on my bicycle tours. I'm not Eddie Merckx either. 30 miles in the morning, 3 hours. Lunch. Same in the afternoon. Beer, shower. Another beer, dinner. It's not a bad way to see the world.
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So do I, and I agree with you that it's a great way to see the countryside. However, those roads on the NC500 especially in the summer get very congested. A lot are single track with passing places, plus have liberal amounts of cyclists on... ;)
 
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