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So. Assisted Suicide. Good or Bad idea?

Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Because this:


Just because your personal experience of end of life care was good, don't assume the same will happen for everybody. Some conditions will end nastily, despite the best efforts of clinicians, and there was a piece on R4 Today programme this morning from the chair of the board of trustees of a hospice, saying that the whole hospice system is massively underfunded and under pressure, and people are competing for places.

If (heaven forbid) Mrs P-T found herself in a situation where she wanted to end things (she's fine, this is hypothetical) we'd definitely do Dignitas, and I'd be with her. And if I got arrested when I got back, so be it. I'd have my day in court and defy any judge or jury to convict me.
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Well said. I may be in such a position with a life long friend who is facing what might be a dreadul death. I've already decided that, if he wants, I'll make the trip with him. Sod them, is my view. Some things transcend the 'law'. This is a personal decision, based upon compassion and respect . If the state decides to prosecure then so be it. Luckily I can afford a robust defence, if required. I'd ensure it was a high profile trial by jury. Frankly, whatever the outcome, I'll be able to go to my grave knowing that I did the right thing.
 
Joco said:
I’ve come to this rather late, in the 21st Century I find it an affront that religious inspired laws from a bygone age prevents an humane exit. Many countries have trodden the legal path, there’s a wealth of experience without having to re-invent the wheel. Just get on with it.
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Pressure from relatives who just want you out of their way or are after the inheritance is a big problem, nothing to do with religion.
We also have the example of prewar Germany where the state decided to get rid of the sick and disabled.
After the stresses of my caring for my wife, I can see how strong the pressure could be if the option existed.
 
Tough subject. We’ve had assisted dying in NZ for a couple of years now. My sister in law would have been one of the earlier cases. The only fly in the ointment was that having set a date she postponed it a couple of months. I understood here initial decision but that said postponing it was pretty dreadful thing to do. My own father died the same year in a hospice he’d been battling leukaemia for years. But in the end he got bladder cancer that spread rapidly. Four weeks after being admitted to the hospice because of falls at home he passed away. He was a stocky bloke and just too big to lift off the floor. He didn’t suffer much besides boredom in the hospice may be a loss of dignity but there was no avoiding that. He was visited daily and I set him up with Tidal. Hospice staff were outstanding. I’ll never be able to repay them. The hospice is now my charity of choice with a monthly donation. If my donation gets patients like my Dad a drink in the afternoon and huge TLC then a hospice won’t be a bad place to go and nothing to fear. There’s been very little coverage in local media about numbers of assisted deaths I assume it’s a none issue and carrying on quietly every week. In the meantime time the hospices are underfunded and that’s a bigger issue.
 
@SteveLuck I had a quick look and the NZ Ministry of Health states that "between 1 April 2022 to 31 March 2023, 328 people had an assisted death".

By my reckoning that accounts for roughly 1% of deaths in NZ in that period - so a significant number but not loads.

Agree - it's a really tough subject.
 
Mystic Mac said:
I can remember back in 2005 reading a newspaper article about a guy who helped his son to pass. His son had Hunters syndrome and the father smothered him with a pillow. The guy was charged with manslaughter or murder but walked out of court with an innocent verdict, but I guess he carries the weight of what he had done or had to do?

I read the article whilst sat in Sheffiled Children’s Hospital at my son‘s bedside wondering if he was going to make it through his 3rd bout of Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. To make matters worse he was diagnosed with XLP (Duncan’s Syndrome) and the ONLY way forward was a stem cell transplant. There were a few times when my son was in a terrible state and the suffering he endured was beyond comprehension. I put myself in that guys shoes and came to the conclusion I would do the same if things took a turn for the worse. Thanks to the amazing staff at that hospital, and the fortunate donor match, he made a sterling recovery.

I guess each situation and set of circumstances needs careful consideration. But it is my firm belief we should all have the option to choose how we go.
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very very brave , going through a stem cell transplant is pretty harrowing . so wonderful he made it through . I had the wonderful privelige of walking round conwy walls recently with a very special person who had spent many months having months of chemo to kill the marrow and leaukeamic cells . lots of suffering and isolation as no contact due to risk of infection . Very brave guy and the guys at Christies and Manchester Royal Infirmary were just magnificent
 
hifinutt said:
very very brave , going through a stem cell transplant is pretty harrowing . so wonderful he made it through . I had the wonderful privelige of walking round conwy walls recently with a very special person who had spent many months having months of chemo to kill the marrow and leaukeamic cells . lots of suffering and isolation as no contact due to risk of infection . Very brave guy and the guys at Christies and Manchester Royal Infirmary were just magnificent
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He had 2 transplants, one at 6 and the second when he was 14. I saw a few children lose the battle, one of them being my son’s best friend who also happened to be his uncle, Ryan was 13 years old when he lost his 2nd battle with the same cancer my son had. In fact my son had his 2nd stem cell transplant in the very isolation room where Ryan passed 16 months earlier. We were shown to the room where his regime would begin by a senior nurse called Shona, when my son said this was Ryan’s room she froze. My son, wearing Ryan’s bandana at the time, said “no, it‘s okay, I want to be in here”. Now, that was brave, choosing to have his transplant regime in the very same room where Ryan lost the same battle.

Spending many months on that oncology ward taught me a great deal about life, including how precious it is, how fragile it is and also how incredibly resilient life can be. Watching the effects on parents over time showed how it applies to people as well, some people are resilient beyond belief, others more fragile. By no means a criticism just an observation.

As I type this I have tears in my eyes as I remember an 18 month old girl called Sapphire who we shared many giggles with, but I also remember a 14 year old boy with no hope who managed to defy the odds and win his battle. I share this with you as I believe we should carry hope and fight for as long as we can, but when our time is up it really is non-negotiable. Personally, if given the choice I’d like to go comfortably and quietly.

I cannot give enough credit and praise to the staff of the oncology ward in Sheffield Childrens Hospital, they were beyond amazing.
 
Scotland could become the first UK nation to provide terminally-ill people with assistance to end their lives if a bill that has been introduced at Holyrood is approved.
Supporters of the legislation say it would ease suffering.
Opponents worry that some terminally-ill people could feel under pressure to end their lives.
Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill is drafted by the Lib Dem MSP, Liam McArthur.
He expects it to be debated this autumn.
The bill was published on Thursday and will potentially be voted on next year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Could assisted dying be coming to Scotland?

MSPs will get the chance to make Scotland the first part of the UK to let people legally end their lives.
www.bbc.co.uk
and this is the tricky bit !!!

Mr McArthur says "the terminal illness would need to be advanced and progressive" and the medics would have to ensure there was "no coercion."
 
The proposed legislation is very very specific and worth reading. No open book here.
Importantly and interestingly, the 'treatment' must be self administered, as proposed, so that removes a lot of the dangers.
My basic view is that dignity and an understanding of how we all vary in our beliefs and tolerances might prevent any legislation becoming law.
But at least suicide is not a prosecutable offence in Scotland.
Somebody understands that each of us has a limit beyond which, life becomes intolerable.
 
I think he might have been referring to conspiracy to commit suicide (suicide pact) which is illegal.
 
It has been determined that during the height of the pandemic, beds in short supply, not enough medical staff etc, those with mental health issues, learning difficulties etc were taken off ventilation without the consent of family members.

https://www.counselmagazine.co.uk/a...estioned,initially revealed during the height

This legislation is always going to be a tricky area & one that is open to abuse of trust & if we lived in a society where we had a fully functioning NHS & lived in a society where such disorders were treated with the respect they deserve then fine. But we don't.

None of us want to see our loved ones suffer but this is not the answer.

Hospitals have procedures in place to ease the suffering of dying patients, i experienced this 20 years apart with both parents.

If someone has experienced differently then their hospital is not functioning as it should & should be reported as such.
 
On the news this evening Sinn Fein and the SDLP both stated that they would consider legalisation of Assisted Dying providing rigorous controls were in place. The DUP and UUP are firmly against it as is the Presbyterian Church, no real surprise there, the Alliance party and others said they would let their constitutes decide.
As before I think it should be up to the individual providing they're of sound mind, perhaps something that should be decided on at an earlier point before the onset of terminal illness.
 
Darren L said:
On the news this evening Sinn Fein and the SDLP both stated that they would consider legalisation of Assisted Dying providing rigorous controls were in place. The DUP and UUP are firmly against it as is the Presbyterian Church, no real surprise there, the Alliance party and others said they would let their constitutes decide.
As before I think it should be up to the individual providing they're of sound mind, perhaps something that should be decided on at an earlier point before the onset of terminal illness.
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And it will be attacked by Reform, the right wing rump of the Tory Party and their backers because it’s another wedge issue they can leech onto. The Tories will also threaten to strike down any Scottish Parliamentary legislation on the matter too, because they can.
 
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