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Should I bi-wire my speakers?

Interesting.

When I tried bi-wiring I heard a difference. Then I messed about a discovered that what was hearing was the absence of the link plates! The link plates degraded the sound and bi-wiring merely brought you back up to where you would be in the first place had the speaker just been single-wired!

In the early days a lot of the good British manufacturers resisted fitting bi-wire sockets. I think it was market pressure that forced them to fit them in many cases.
 
Mr Pig said:
You've lost me.
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Have you not noticed how when you are a passenger in a car the way you see landscape changes depending on what music is playing? Same thing. Anyhow no more from me on this I don't want to further de-rail this thread.
 
MVV said:
Have you not noticed how when you are a passenger in a car the way you see landscape changes depending on what music is playing? Same thing.
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What???

You said:
Sounds no different to a jumper
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Then you said:
I think it sounds better too which is why I have done it
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Then you said:
both can be true.
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So I'm confused as I don't see how they can be. They can't sound different and no different.
 
In my experience sometimes bi-wiring helps and sometimes it doesn't! Depends on the speakers more than anything. As someone said borrow an extra set of cables and try it, nothing to lose that way. I've heard systems sounding worse, better and just the same using bi-wiring.
 
So I'm confused as I don't see how they can be. They can't sound different and no different.[MR PIG/QUOTE]

I said that I think they sound different, I'd go further and say I think they sound better but I realise that in fact they don't sound different. Meaning I know that my perception is unreliable and influenced by all kinds of other things however I feel better none the less and I prefer to feel better so I put F connectors on in place of the jumpers. As the man said it's the Placido effect. Obviously Placido was not a fat lady but he was fat and did sing.

(Can anyone link to the kitkat, Key, screw, wire test for Mr Pig?)
 
A good few years ago, I damaged the tweeters in my Celestion SL6s - requiring me sending them to the manufacturers for repair. They offered the option of fitting a 2nd pair of sockets & splitting the X-overs. I was somewhat sceptical & asked why I would possibly want to do something that had precious little engineering explanation. Celestion told me that some people preferred the sound, that implementing it was cheap & could be bi-passed without compromising the sound. The extra cost was minimal so I went ahead.

Although the old tweeters didn't sound damaged, I was happy to see copper coloured domes again rather than blackened ones. I carried on with me system's single runs of 79 strand until a friend asked me if I had tried bi-wiring. He had some spare cable that he left with me which I eventually tried.

To say that I was surprised is an understatement. The sound stage opened out, the bass was tighter & treble seemed better defined. The difference was a subtle improvement but certainly audible. My current Totem Arros are bi-wired with 4x 5m of Exposure cable that exhibit similar improvements. As for replacing the metal strips with cable (advice I've heard often), I can't comment on 'cos I've not tried it.

Many or even most dealers will suggest spending any budget on better single runs of cable & to not bother bi-wiring. My own experience tells me otherwise - the improvement is worth the extra expense, IMO. At least the extra cable can be bought later, spreading the costs. I suggest not buying any more cable initially - borrow some then decide - not all speakers respond well to bi-wiring. Although I acknowledge that Hi Fi is strewn with mumbo jumbo, I’m also unwilling to go into denial when my ears tell me something that science can’t yet explain – knowing also that everyone’s audio memory is not that reliable.
 
vanwykca said:
Quoting Bruno Putzeys:

Speakers are nonlinear things, so a speaker's back EMF is distorted. If you use biwiring on a very low-impedance amp you can stop distortion generated in, say the woofer, from electrically cross-talking into the tweeter. With moderate impedance amps you can only get the same result with biamping. I think this is the only sensible explanation why biwiring sometimes sounds different. I'm not saying the effect is very big but it's hard to argue that it is always inaudible.

A lot is being said about sense or nonsense of biwiring but what it is about is that loudspeakers are nonlinear. If the woofer draws a distorted current, biwiring can prevent this current from causing distortion in the voltage going to the tweeter. What it takes is an amplifier with output impedance much lower than that of the speaker cable. Running two separate cables between the amp and speaker will make a difference. Since the amplifier feedback senses exactly where the speaker cable is connected, you can just connect two sets at the same point and be certain that the common impedance between the HF/LF current loops is just the amplifier's output impedance.

He is the John Westlake of Class D amplifiers and certainly known for his dislike of foo in audio:eek:
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That explanation is the reason I have always bi-wired. I do not use expensive cable, I think its a waste of money.
 
If you try bi-wiring and hear an improvement I'd ask if you also tried 'F' plugs at the same time? If not then what you heard was the mainly the removal of the link plates from the circuit.
 
Mr Pig said:
If you try bi-wiring and hear an improvement I'd ask if you also tried 'F' plugs at the same time? If not then what you heard was the mainly the removal of the link plates from the circuit.
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I do not think so, in bi wiring the bass and treble units are not sharing the same feed and return path. Google "four wire measurements" for an explanation of why its done for electrical measurements, you can then work out why it should be done for speakers.
 
russel said:
I do not think so, in bi wiring the bass and treble units are not sharing the same feed and return path.
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Fair enough. I accept that different speakers and amps might respond differently. What I found was that subjectively there was no difference between 'F' plugs and bi-wiring with the speakers I tried it with.
 
As usual, the only "test" is to try it your system.

After all, I can dip out a cup of water from the ocean and "prove" that there's no such thing as whales as none are in my cup.
 
In some circles those that run 2 pairs of wires between one amp and one speaker are considered good customers, In other circles they are considered something less complimentary.

Your Pal with the single pair of wires to each speaker.............

Louballoo
 
dave said:
As usual, the only "test" is try it your system.

After all, I can dip out a cup of water from the ocean and prove that there's no such thing as whales as none are in my cup.
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Dave, that's dumb. No wonder audiophiles are called audiophools. One adequate pair of wires is all you need. If anyone tells you different they are most likely trying to sell twice as much wire.

So Gents - don't be idiots............

Louballoo
 
louballoo said:
Dave, that's dumb. No wonder audiophiles are called audiophools. One adequate pair of wires is all you need. If anyone tells you different they are most likely trying to sell twice as much wire.

So Gents - don't be idiots............

Louballoo
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Sure it's dumb ...but representative of many of the "tests" we see on these forums.

Regarding the bi-wire thing specifically...I've never heard enough difference (or one I liked) to bother including tri-wiring. Spend the money on something (anything) else.

Do the F or E thing if you must fill holes...at least it's cheap.
 
louballoo said:
In some circles those that run 2 pairs of wires between one amp and one speaker are considered good customers, In other circles they are considered something less complimentary.

Your Pal with the single pair of wires to each speaker.............

Louballoo
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If bi wiring is wrong then there is no point in thinking about the layout of the PCB in the power amplifier, the pre amplifier or any other part of the system.

As far as buying a speaker cable from a hi-fi shop then I really would consider that foolish.
 
russel said:
If bi wiring is wrong then there is no point in thinking about the layout of the PCB in the power amplifier, the pre amplifier or any other part of the system.
..................
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Russel, This just doesn't make sense. I let the amp designers worry about the PCB layouts and other things that do matter.

I leave the worrying about audio nonsense to others. You have been reading to much trash from the audio media. This hobby is already full of poop why make things worse.

Your Pal

Louballoo
 
dave said:
As usual, the only "test" is to try it your system.

After all, I can dip out a cup of water from the ocean and "prove" that there's no such thing as whales as none are in my cup.
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daft dave, how could a huge whale fit in a cup?

[YOUTUBE]98OTsYfTt-c[/YOUTUBE]

you need some data clarification.....
 
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