SDS Soundeck feet anyone tried them

[windhoek]

Hi Derek,

The top surface of the Soundeck plates is not grippy in any sense. And so, unless your speakers are really heavy, they could move.

Is there anyway that you could add spikes to the bottom of your speakers to interface to the glass. You can then add some plastic or rubber around the spike to help keep it there. The Mana Soundclamp does that quite effectively if you wanted to ask them to make a set for you.

I suspect that the felt interface to the glass is not allowing the Mana stands to sound like Mana stands, as that interface is important to the sound.

I do use Soundeck feet under my floor standers (as mentioned upthread). The spikes from the speaker then sit on metal pucks, which sit on the Soundeck plates, which then sit on the floor. The speakers weight around 67 kg and do not move on the Soundeck plates.

If you want to use Soundeck plates under your speakers you could put them between your replica Sound Tables and the floor. An interesting experiment, but you of course mixing different approaches to supporting equipment.

I hope this helps.

Ian

Yeah Ian, that's very helpful. My Eaton Legacy speakers weigh 20kg each so they're probably heavy enough to stay put on any interface unless it's polished or been designed to be slippy, like Teflon or something like that. I tried having my speakers sitting flat on the glass with no interface and they were pretty secure; although there may well have been a vacuum effect going on considering two large surface areas were in flat contact.

I've actually just recently swapped out the felt pads for pieces of Addis Sink Mat protection stuff; which seems to be made from a very firm but not exactly solid rubber-plastic compound, and which happens to be ever so slightly tacky. I bought it in B&M for £2.50 on the off-chance it would sound better than felt pads and sure enough, it does: there's been a definite drop in floor vibration and the bass frequencies seem to be coming from the area behind and between the speakers as opposed to coming from everywhere in the room, as if out of control room modes and floor reverberation were at work. Fwiw, I've got two stacked together under the corners of each speaker, so that's 16 pieces altogether.

Suffice to say, I agree that the interface can make a huge difference. My speakers are unquestionably too big for my small room so bringing unwanted vibration and excitement in the lower frequencies under control is definitely what I want to achieve... but without having to sell my speakers.

I don't think I'd be keen on fixing spikes to my speakers as they're in great condition and my floor is decidedly uneven and springy so if I was going to buy some Soundeck feet I'd want to stick them between glass and speaker. The 4-tier mana column each speaker sits on is pretty solid so I'd be reluctant to disturb it as it took ages to get everything level and perfectly stable. And seeing as it is pretty stable and level, the Soundeck feet might be fine as they are, although slightly tacky on top would be better.

As for the sound clamp idea, do you mean that you could use a sound clamp to sit on top of the glass? Or would the sound clamp dispense with the glass? And would either option maintain the coupling of speaker to floor? I'm inclined to try out some form of de-coupling, which I think the pieces of sink mat are allowing me to do, and which as far as I can tell, the Soundeck feet would achieve as well.

 

[IanW]

Yeah Ian, that's very helpful. My Eaton Legacy speakers weigh 20kg each so they're probably heavy enough to stay put on any interface unless it's polished or been designed to be slippy, like Teflon or something like that. I tried having my speakers sitting flat on the glass with no interface and they were pretty secure; although there may well have been a vacuum effect going on considering two large surface areas were in flat contact.

I've actually just recently swapped out the felt pads for pieces of Addis Sink Mat protection stuff; which seems to be made from a very firm but not exactly solid rubber-plastic compound, and which happens to be ever so slightly tacky. I bought it in B&M for £2.50 on the off-chance it would sound better than felt pads and sure enough, it does: there's been a definite drop in floor vibration and the bass frequencies seem to be coming from the area behind and between the speakers as opposed to coming from everywhere in the room, as if out of control room modes and floor reverberation were at work. Fwiw, I've got two stacked together under the corners of each speaker, so that's 16 pieces altogether.

Do you have a suspended floor as that in my experience makes vibration problems worse as it is easier to get the floor to resonate? I used the Soundeck plates to reduce the energy input into the floor. I measured the input to be less, could feel input around the speaker and feel less where I was listening and it sounded clearer. You could put the Soundeck plates between the Sound Table and the floor. That will absorb around 20 dB of energy from 30 Hz upwards. Constrained Layer Damping (CLD) technology is good at absorbing higher frequencies than some other approaches.

Suffice to say, I agree that the interface can make a huge difference. My speakers are unquestionably too big for my small room so bringing unwanted vibration and excitement in the lower frequencies under control is definitely what I want to achieve... but without having to sell my speakers.

I don't think I'd be keen on fixing spikes to my speakers as they're in great condition and my floor is decidedly uneven and springy so if I was going to buy some Soundeck feet I'd want to stick them between glass and speaker. The 4-tier mana column each speaker sits on is pretty solid so I'd be reluctant to disturb it as it took ages to get everything level and perfectly stable. And seeing as it is pretty stable and level, the Soundeck feet might be fine as they are, although slightly tacky on top would be better.

Sounds like you do have a suspended floor from your comments. The interface and what the speaker sits on does seem to have a significant effect on the sound. With your 4 tier amp rack you could fit plates underneath pretty easily by lifting up from the front and placing underneath the front spikes and then do the same at the rear. This is how I added them under my speakers. You might then need some fine adjustment of the downward spikes to stop it rocking.

As for the sound clamp idea, do you mean that you could use a sound clamp to sit on top of the glass? Or would the sound clamp dispense with the glass? And would either option maintain the coupling of speaker to floor? I'm inclined to try out some form of de-coupling, which I think the pieces of sink mat are allowing me to do, and which as far as I can tell, the Soundeck feet would achieve as well.

Yes, Tannoy speaker sitting on the Soundclamp (spikes can go into the speaker or onto metal pucks), sitting on the Mana glass of the Sound table. You could then use Soundeck plates under the Mana Sound Table spikes to absorb more energy and stop it going into your floor. It would be interesting to see if that worked.

 

[windhoek]

Do you have a suspended floor as that in my experience makes vibration problems worse as it is easier to get the floor to resonate? I used the Soundeck plates to reduce the energy input into the floor. I measured the input to be less, could feel input around the speaker and feel less where I was listening and it sounded clearer. You could put the Soundeck plates between the Sound Table and the floor. That will absorb around 20 dB of energy from 30 Hz upwards. Constrained Layer Damping (CLD) technology is good at absorbing higher frequencies than some other approaches.


Sounds like you do have a suspended floor from your comments. The interface and what the speaker sits on does seem to have a significant effect on the sound. With your 4 tier amp rack you could fit plates underneath pretty easily by lifting up from the front and placing underneath the front spikes and then do the same at the rear. This is how I added them under my speakers. You might then need some fine adjustment of the downward spikes to stop it rocking.


Yes, Tannoy speaker sitting on the Soundclamp (spikes can go into the speaker or onto metal pucks), sitting on the Mana glass of the Sound table. You could then use Soundeck plates under the Mana Sound Table spikes to absorb more energy and stop it going into your floor. It would be interesting to see if that worked.

My mistake when I mentioned 4-tier, I meant to say my speakers are at phase 4: sound table + reference level + two sound frames with glass on top. With a sloping and springy floor, that's why getting the columns stable and level was quite a faff. I've also got a thick carpet with underlay so putting the plates on top of that seems like it would compromise the solidity of the setup. If the plates aren't slippy (even though they're not even slightly tacky) then placing them directly underneath the speakers should hopefully have the same effect as placing them between floor and column spikes i.e. they interrupt the transmission of energy.

Thanks for clarifying how a sound clamp would be used in this scenario as I wasn't sure whether using them would mean dispensing with glass. But I see that you simply add a sound clamp on top of the glass and couple the speaker directly onto that, or onto spike cups if you don't want to penetrate the speaker cabinet.

A 20db drop in energy sounds like a big reduction and I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I need. All I need to do now is convince myself to spend £150 or so on 8 Sondeck plates (or perhaps on sound clamps), as I'd be gutted to find they're no more effective than the kitchen sink mat stuff which only cost £2.50 but does a surprisingly good job.

 

[John]

I use a Svelte shelf and Svelte Plus absorption platform placed directly under my Tannoy loudspeakers. They are the best solution I’ve seen.

http://www.symposiumusa.com/svelte.html

 

[IanW]

Hmm, I will have to look at making some, then.

I started to look into making my own.

The difficult bit remains getting a visco elastic glue. I found what would be the best glue for the job, but it is made by 3M and they only sell in large quantities to other big companies (F1 teams where I used to work are too small to be able to buy this glue) and so I gave up.

 

[windhoek]

Well that's me ordered a set of Soundeck plates. I'm 99% sure my 20kg speakers are heavy enough to want to stay put. If not, I suppose I could always put some of that kitchen sink mat stuff between the plates and speakers. In fact, I might want to try that option regardless.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that before I place the plates beneath my speakers I should place a set of four beneath my 1210GR and also a set of four beneath my LP12 and see how that goes; on the premise that speakers and turntables are more sensitive to vibration than anything else in the chain (I don't spin discs anymore so in my case only my speakers and turntables have moving parts).

 

[Fergus]

I started to look into making my own.

The difficult bit remains getting a visco elastic glue. I found what would be the best glue for the job, but it is made by 3M and they only sell in large quantities to other big companies (F1 teams where I used to work are too small to be able to buy this glue) and so I gave up.

I use several sets of the SDS/ Soundeck plates under my racks, integrated amplifier and sub woofer and all have made an appreciable difference.

Out of interest I also had a go at making my own. A friend cut me some 60 mm squares of 1.5 mm thick stainless steel to which I attached a 30 mm square of 3M 2552 damping foil on the underside to give 25% coverage, their overall thickness is around 2 mm.





https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/96388O/3mtm-damping-foil-2552.pdf

They are used below my switch, streamer, power conditioner and speaker stands. I can’t say they are as effective as the “real thing” but they must be having some effect. Hopefully beneficial!

I have also used the tape on anything audio that has a thin, reverberating case.

 

[windhoek]

When it comes to placing the Soundeck plates beneath speakers and equipment, does it matter whether the load is concentrated over a small surface area? I mean, does it matter whether you concentrate the load over the width of a spike tip? Or should you aim to spread the load over as much surface area as possible? Assuming that all that matters is load concentration/distribution.

And would there be any point in stacking plates to achieve greater damping? Like, would doubling plates double the damping capability?

 

[awkwardbydesign]

I started to look into making my own.

The difficult bit remains getting a visco elastic glue. I found what would be the best glue for the job, but it is made by 3M and they only sell in large quantities to other big companies (F1 teams where I used to work are too small to be able to buy this glue) and so I gave up.

I wonder if the flooring glue I used to fix my oak flooring would work. It allows some sideways movement to compensate for expansion and contraction.

 

[Paddy]

I wonder if the flooring glue I used to fix my oak flooring would work. It allows some sideways movement to compensate for expansion and contraction.

Pressure sensitive adhesives are visoelastic and work for constrained layer applications. Look for an adhesive transfer tape and you're golden

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Thanks.

 

[windhoek]

I sent Lee @ SDS Soundeck an email asking if it mattered whether the load was more concentrated or more distributed and he said to try both although he reckons the plates will perform better without spikes in place. Either way, it sounds like it's not critical but spreading the load is probably going to produce better results.

 

[windhoek]

I just ran some REW measurements there to see how and to what extent the SDS plates performed compared to those pieces of Addis sink mat stuff I mentioned up thread in post #21, and against the felt pads I'd been using for a few months beforehand. I even ran some measurements using combinations of felt plus Addis pieces, felt plus SDS plates and SDS plates plus Addis pieces just to see how mixing and matching would affect things. I also ran a measurement with the speaker sitting directly on the glass for good measure.

In a nutshell, the results were almost identical no matter what interface I placed beneath the speaker. There was absolutely no appreciable difference whatsoever. I think it just goes to show measurements don't tell you everything.

But they do sound different. Placing the speaker directly onto the glass results in the 3-D presentation collapsing right back onto the wall behind the speakers. It sounds great in many ways but the extremely flat presentation is so bad it ruins the listening experience. The felt pads bring that 3-D listening experience back, but they don't really help when it comes to bass definition and placement. The Addis pieces however, do give greater definition to the bass and they place it firmly within the soundstage as well.

As for the SDS plates, they were most like the Addis pieces, although I think they helped everything sound a bit clearer. It really is a case of marginal gains at this point I think. The key thing the REW measurements didn't show is floor vibration i.e. which interface (or not) does the best job at limiting floor vibration. For that I'll have to rely on of my bare feet. I'll need to play some music and see which interface produces the most and least floor vibration. Once I figure that out, then I'll know which interface is the best for my situation as I really should go with the interface that limits vibration the most. I'm guessing it's either going to be those Addis pieces or the SDS plates.

 

[windhoek]

I downloaded the Vibration Meter app for Android and ran a few tests. Sure, measuring floor vibration regarding hifi isn't what it was intended for. But if all else being equal, then I should be able to infer useful information from the results all the same; fwiw, I repeated the test on each interface to make sure I was getting reliable and predictable results. The felt pads measured the best, the SDS Plates a close second and those Addis sink mat pieces a close third. The very best combination was SDS pieces with two felt pads on top... but it sounded the worst. The Addis sink mat pieces sound pretty good but I still have a feeling that the SDS plates sound slightly better all round, plus they measure every so slightly better in terms of floor vibration. They don't perform anywhere near the cost differential of the Addis pieces - they're something like 4 pence per piece, whereas the SDS plates are around £18 per plate.

I've got some bitumen strips so I'll probably see if putting some of that beneath the SDS plates makes a difference as the tiny rubber stick on pads are practically useless with a 20kg load. They're now as flat as a pancake!

Oh, and sitting the speakers directly on the glass measured the worst by quite a bit!

 

[windhoek]

Well this is embarrassing. I just tried using the rubber feet that came with my Tannoys, for the first time ever, and they soak up so much bass energy that the vibration app isn't even showing a reading. I can just about feel the transmission of energy going into the floor but it's extremely faint and, for all intents and purposes, it's essentially non-existent.

When I bought my Tannoys they came with Atacama stands which had rubber pads on top already so I never bothered to put on the original, supplied pads. When I put my Tannoys on mana back in November this is probably what I should have done then instead of experimenting with felt pads and whatnot. This is the solution that will make a difference to the experience my neighbours have when I play music. It won't change or fix room modes, but getting floor excitement under control was still an essential problem that needed fixing all the same.

I'm not sure what I'll do with those SDS plates. I suppose I could always return them. But I might try them out under components and see how that goes.

Anyway, unwelcome floor vibration solved