Rwanda

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Government says it already has aircraft and 'airfield' lined up. Not 'airport', note. My guess is, that's the RAF. Not sure any commercial operator is going to risk their reputation by association with this. The first flight out is going to be a high-profile media event. Can't see even Ryanair wanting their planes splashed all over the media that day.

 

[Mick P]

Yes.

There is no level on which this is justifiable.

This is cruelty for it’s own sake.

This is not typical of how the average Tory voter feels, the entire debacle is shameful.

There is no reason to send anyone back. There are plenty of jobs for these people so just let them land on our soil and start processing them to get a job etc.

If someone is prepared to go through with what they have endured to get here then they are OK by me.

 

[Tony L]

Inevitable concerns from Europe regarding the Conservative Party’s extremism and utter contempt for human rights:

Serious human rights concerns about United Kingdom’s Rwanda Bill - Commissioner for Human Rights - www.coe.int

Strasbourg 23/04/2024

www.coe.int

 

[tiggers]

Anecdotal I know, but funnily enough I met a rabid right wing sort at Record Store Day on Saturday, Brexit was great and the immigrants were the cause of a lot of the UK's issues according to him, but even he said he felt the Rwanda exercise was unnecessarily cruel and should be dropped. This is why I feel the government are just being sadistic as it isn't going to win them many votes if even people who think (wrongly IMO) that many of the country's ills can be laid at the door of immigration do not support it.

 

[ks.234]

This is not typical of how the average Tory voter feels, the entire debacle is shameful.

Yes, agree. This crosses all Voters (except the more enlightened Greens of course) though ot has to be said it was the Tories that first politicised it. That Labour learned the wrong lesson from that is utterly shameful, as is, as younsay, the whole debacle

There is no reason to send anyone back. There are plenty of jobs for these people so just let them land on our soil and start processing them to get a job etc.

If someone is prepared to go through with what they have endured to get here then they are OK by me.

Yes, we’ve created the conditions where our economy depends on low paid workers, then we‘re spending silly money on keeping them out. It is utter madness.

Instead of building on division, we need to build on inclusivity. Call it One Nation Conservatism, Greater Good Liberalism, Many not the Few Corbynism or just plain old Social Democracy, we need it more than the To Them That Hath Shall Be Given failure we’ve had for the past half a century

 

[Mick P]

Inevitable concerns from Europe regarding the Conservative Party’s extremism and utter contempt for human rights:

Serious human rights concerns about United Kingdom’s Rwanda Bill - Commissioner for Human Rights - www.coe.int

Strasbourg 23/04/2024

www.coe.int

The EU is as bad as the UK. France allows the boats to cross the channel and they don't give a damn whether the boats sink in the water or not.

The EU and the UK governments are both racists and they push refugees from one country to another in the full knowledge that the refugees will eventually end up in the UK and then onto Rwanda, it's as simple as that.

They are as bad as each other.

 

[SteveS1]

The EU is as bad as the UK. France allows the boats to cross the channel and they don't give a damn whether the boats sink in the water or not.

The EU and the UK governments are both racists and they push refugees from one country to another in the full knowledge that the refugees will eventually end up in the UK and then onto Rwanda, it's as simple as that.

They are as bad as each other.

You could double the resources there and the stretch of coast on that side would never be covered adequately. It is enormous compared to the part of the UK they are destined for.

The answer is and always has been proper processing by the UK on the French side, even then you would face a reduced number trying any way they can. Perhaps realistic expectation management might help but the UK government has no interest in doing anything other than winding up the sort of idiot who thinks these numbers are significant, especially when they are happy to spaff vast fortunes of public money enriching their donors and supporters.

This could easily be managed better, they have no incentive to doing do so while people having it tough here can be placated as long as you make the lives of others even more miserable.

 

[Bananahead]

Each person deported to Rwanda = £1.8m
Human Rights = Priceless. When one person loses their rights, we all lose.

Thank you.

Not really supplying an analysis is it?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Just think how far £1.8m (plus the cost of detention) could go in assessing each arrival, their skills and what contribution they could make, then training them to best make that contribution for us. I bet you'd end up with a willing and motivated, economically active cohort of would-be citizens, and still have change.

 

[gavreid]

The vans and the flights will have to be stopped - there's no use waiting for Starmer or the courts. The Bill needs to be made unworkable.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

The vans and the flights will have to be stopped - there's no use waiting for Starmer or the courts. The Bill needs to be made unworkable.

This is another reason why I suspect it will be the military which is tasked with carrying out the flights. Aside from the security angle, military personnel can be ordered to comply, whereas airline staff could object, get unions involved, and so-on.

 

[gavreid]

This is another reason why I suspect it will be the military which is tasked with carrying out the flights. Aside from the security angle, military personnel can be ordered to comply, whereas airline staff could object, get unions involved, and so-on.

Indeed! They won't have the capacity to handle mass deportations alone it will need complicit civilians too...

 

[Mick P]

You could double the resources there and the stretch of coast on that side would never be covered adequately. It is enormous compared to the part of the UK they are destined for.

The answer is and always has been proper processing by the UK on the French side, even then you would face a reduced number trying any way they can. Perhaps realistic expectation management might help but the UK government has no interest in doing anything other than winding up the sort of idiot who thinks these numbers are significant, especially when they are happy to spaff vast fortunes of public money enriching their donors and supporters.

This could easily be managed better, they have no incentive to doing do so while people having it tough here can be placated as long as you make the lives of others even more miserable.

The truth is simple, the EU and the UK are inherently racist. Refugees mainly arrive in the EU via Greece and then begin a tortuous journey of being pushed out of several countries and eventually into France who also do not want them. So they are dumped into boats to cross the channel and no one cares whether they make it or not.

If they do make it, the UK screams send them back and they don't care where they get send as long as they get sent. That is the reality of the EU and the UK.

The daft thing is these people can contribute to our economy thanks to a shortage of workers.

Anyway I am now off to get my Covid jab. Speak later.

 

[Tony L]

The EU is as bad as the UK. France allows the boats to cross the channel and they don't give a damn whether the boats sink in the water or not.

The EU and the UK governments are both racists and they push refugees from one country to another in the full knowledge that the refugees will eventually end up in the UK and then onto Rwanda, it's as simple as that.

They are as bad as each other.

If that had even the slightest basis in fact your far-right Conservative Party would not be attempting every dirty trick in the book to distance the UK from EU (and wider international) human rights legislation. Basic rights and liberties we all once took for granted. Human rights collectively won after witnessing the fascism and genocide of WWII. The Tories are attempting to erase it all.

 

[droodzilla]

If that had even the slightest basis in fact your far-right Conservative Party would not be attempting every dirty trick in the book to distance the UK from EU (and wider international) human rights legislation. Basic rights and liberties we all once took for granted. Human rights collectively won after witnessing the fascism and genocide of WWII. The Tories are attempting to erase it all.

Mick P is right about this. The EU is irredeemably racist in its treatment of refugees and asylum seekers:

The EU’s new migration pact is intended to neutralise the far right – it risks empowering it | Daniel Trilling

With a heavy focus on deterrence, the agreement shows how far Europe’s centre has shifted to the right, says author Daniel Trilling

www.theguardian.com

The overriding goal is, and has been for some time, to create and maintain "Fortress Europe", at all costs.

The language of the EU might be less offensive, more polite and managerial, but ultimately it's the same old capitulation to the far-right, and the human cost - thousands of dead bodies in The Mediterranean - is grotesque.

 

[Tony L]

Mick P is right about this. The EU is irredeemably racist in its treatment of refugees and asylum seekers:

I’m not implying the EU is perfect, but the Tory party are very clearly worse and sit next to LePen, AFD and other far-right disruptors in the grouping.

The cold hard indisputable fact is the Tory Party are trying to remove us from international human rights legislation. Legislation which still protects citizens within the EU.

PS Do you have more or less human rights and civil liberties now or before 14 years of Tory rule and their far-right Brexit project? The answer could not be more clear.

 

[gavreid]

The cold hard indisputable fact is the Tory Party are trying to remove us from international human rights legislation. Legislation which still protects citizens within the EU.

These deportations won't stop with asylum seekers that's for sure

 

[Tony L]

These deportations won't stop with asylum seekers that's for sure

Rwanda is starting to look quite attractive. Damp dull grey windy fascist Little England with its rivers of shit and oligarch rule, or nice warm sunny Rwanda? I’m tempted to get a ticket.

 

[flutteringwow]

This is not typical of how the average Tory voter feels, the entire debacle is shameful.

There is no reason to send anyone back. There are plenty of jobs for these people so just let them land on our soil and start processing them to get a job etc.

If someone is prepared to go through with what they have endured to get here then they are OK by me.

Why would you continue to vote for a party that does this then? Surely, this, and the many other atrocities they have caused is enough for any even just 'reasonable' moral and ethical compass to say enough is enough?

Your son is canvassing for the Conservatives no?, therefore, would not be in direct support of their policies, would you not just leave the party or not do the work in protest of something as shameful, as you say, as this?

 

[Mick P]

If that had even the slightest basis in fact your far-right Conservative Party would not be attempting every dirty trick in the book to distance the UK from EU (and wider international) human rights legislation. Basic rights and liberties we all once took for granted. Human rights collectively won after witnessing the fascism and genocide of WWII. The Tories are attempting to erase it all.

OK name one country in the EU that has not pressurised refugees from sent into being into another country. This is not right wing or left wing, it is racism pure and simple. No country in the EU wants them in their own country. You can bet your bottom dollar that Labour will cancel Rwanda but will come up with something else.

The sad fact that in Europe, keeping outsiders out is a vote winner and politicians respond to that.