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Rega electronics (also) perform better on light rigid support ? (just as their TT's)

One thing I might suggest, given you already have the oak cabinet and also the IKEA bamboo boards, would be to experiment with something other than Sorbothane under the bamboo boards. Start by putting the board directly on the oak shelf, then maybe look at using cones or something similar to lift it off that surface instead of Sorbothane. See what happens, that may tell you something about the way forward via isolation, or more carefully managed coupling.
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Thanks. I haven't thought about this. I will look if I have some spare cones or something similar.

A set of quadraspire QPlus Evo's under a bamboo chopping board can work wonders
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Thank you Rosie. Looks/sounds interesting.
 
Alco said:
That will indeed explain the less spacious soundstage, and I can understand and accept that, but the emphasized, muddy bass was more of a surprise to me actually.
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No surprise - look at the unbraced cavities in that thing. It's a big bass resonator. I wonder if you can solve most of the bass problem by taking off the back panel and doors...
 
booja30 said:
Turntables, phono stages, valve amps, are the sorts of things that would be susceptible to vibration. Solid state (aside from maybe MC stage), shouldn’t be affected by vibration. IMO hifi furniture, dampening/isolation, etc. is just foo for solid state. RoA is on the right track that your new cabinet could have modified the room acoustically.

BTW here’s a nice article about an experiment that went to some extremes to show that microphony is not a thing for solid state:

https://www.audio-forums.com/articles/microphonic-effects-on-solid-state-circuits.17/

Whenever this link has been posted in threads in the past it usually gets ignored. :)
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Are we actually mostly agreeing that an afternoon of inexpensive trial-and-error is the next step, whatever the underlying cause of he problem is?

It's always easy for those of us who are more subjectivist rather than objectivist (if you see what I mean) to find reasons to ignore test results - e.g that link. Good, but perhaps over-used examples might be: -
1. We don't have a proper model for how the source data gets to our heads that enable us to tell how people will report the SQ, and until we do we can believe in supports, cables or turntables if we want.
2. We don't actually know all the things that need measuring, but we do know that an unvarying pink noise input may not be representative of music (or spoken voice).
3. Formal models for rooms (see concert halls) are fiendishly complicated and long-winded, and still need checking with ears. A smaller listening room is all the more likely to have individual features that have a major effect on SQ, so producing any answer that can be generalised usefully is harder than it looks.

Other people can just as easily point to snake-oil salesmen and their lack of veracity and how rare a proper blind test of anything is, and how variable our perceptions are and how poor auditory memories usually are, and a host of reasons why caution is needed. Some go to extremes and assume that the graphs are right and all we need to know, and that what we think we hear has nothing to do with getting a more enjoyable hi-fi (see perhaps ASR). Pretty soon, the thread has descended to some people suggesting that anyone with different results to them must be deluded/ deceived/ dishonest or deaf.

None of that really helped me when I tried investigating isolation, and it probably won't help this OP either - party because it's apparently an unending topic and partly because these things are (in my limited experience at least) all about the specifics.

As people here have said, it is hard to form a view on whether the cabinet is absorbing and radiating a significant amount of sound, or whether the boxes vibrate on the shelves in a way that is audible. We can't tell whether to be concerned about transfer through the air or via the floor or both, and noises of these sorts need not be at all obvious to have an effect on SQ. My guess (like yours perhaps) would be that the cabinet is an accidental passive radiator and sounds like the world's worst sub-woofer, something that the OP can probably test by taking the door off or (less good) hanging a jumper on it.

While it would be weird to put microphony in a solid state amp high on a list of suspects in any room/ system, I'd argue that we know that we don't know enough (and 'we' here can be pretty wide) to diagnose what is going on, so thinking about the mechanism won't help.

Fortunately, there are things the OP can try without spending money or doing anything irreversible - as several old lags here have said. I tried various woods, granite, glass, MDF and more - with standard hi-fi box feet, rubbery feet from HRS, balls-and-cups from a Fraim and various bits of sorbothane. I used multiple listeners with notepads and stood as consistently as I could in front of the rack. Some options were obviously awful, but the rest were clearly not identical if you listened hard enough. How the supports (and any object in the room) affects sound may be hard to predict or model, but it is surely easy to detect with ears if it is a real problem (as here). We were born with the tools....
 
Why not start simple? Put the electronics directly on the floor, and then swap the old and new furniture, and maybe even try no shelf. That should nail down whether the furniture’s acoustic contribution to the room is main cause of the perceived difference.

But if people want to jump straight into cups and balls, glass shelves, spikes, rubber dampers, mana racks, etc. I won’t stop them.
 
They should stop themselves though, right?

I think what is needed here are some digital recordings of a Rega IO playing whilst taking a ride in a paint shaker.
 
No surprise - look at the unbraced cavities in that thing. It's a big bass resonator. I wonder if you can solve most of the bass problem by taking off the back panel and doors...
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I didn't know/realise that the cavities in this cabinet could act as a bass resonator.
I can take off the back panel and door, to see if changes the sound for the better, but then again... even if it does I wouldn't want to leave the cabinet like that, so it'd still have to go.

I've used these to very good effect:

Quadraspire QX25 Silencer - Synergy Audio

They're a legacy product now, not currently available, but they were inexpensive and you might find some on eBay perhaps. If not, I have some that I'm not using, which I'd be happy to send you
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That's a very kind offer Sue Pertwee-Tyr!:) Thank you very much! It seems that the size, design (unbraced cavaties?) and weight/material of this new cabinet is causing most of the problems. (due to the fact that all sounded fine on the smaller/lighter Ikea Besta cabinet!) I'll try to experiment with different sorts of isolation underneath the Rega amp the upcoming weekend, and if that won't do much good, I'll probably put the Ikea cabinet back in place. (for now, and then look into some serious audio racksuggestions)

Why not start simple? Put the electronics directly on the floor, and then swap the old and new furniture, and maybe even try no shelf. That should nail down whether the furniture’s acoustic contribution to the room is main cause of the perceived difference.
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I'm pretty confident that the new furniture is the main cause. (as things sounded fine on the Ikea cabinet)
 
Perhaps a picture tells more than words alone. (sorry, for the poor quality. bad light and bad photographer!):D;)

systempic-front-15-12-2022.jpg

v4JL0K0


As I removed the metal frame underneath the new cabinet it now has the same, fairly modest height as the old Ikea cabinet.
Therefor I think that the size, weight, and perhaps material are only suspects left, to cause the more emphasized, muddy bass.
 
Alco said:
Perhaps a picture tells more than words alone. (sorry, for the poor quality. bad light and bad photographer!):D;)

systempic-front-15-12-2022.jpg

v4JL0K0


As I removed the metal frame underneath the new cabinet it now has the same, fairly modest height as the old Ikea cabinet.
Therefor I think that the size, weight, and perhaps material are only suspects left, to cause the more emphasized, muddy bass.
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I can see why you went with this, a nice clean, simple looking cabinet, Alco.

I wonder if applying damping sheets on back of the back panel wouldn't quieten things down.

Also, if that is a swing out door, perhaps have a closer look at how it attaches to, and contacts with the cabinet proper when closed (i.e. spring loaded hinges with rubber bumpers vs. piano hinges and felt?).

EDIT: Many years ago my then partner had a massive 'wall unit' (i.e. free standing shelving/AV unit that takes up most of a wall) in her apartment. In addition to damping the pressboard back panels with bitumen sheets, I found that sticking felt pads between the adjustable shelves and their support brackets did wonders. Also felt pads between the back edges of any adjustable shelves and where they make contact with the pressboard back panel.

When we eventually bought a terraced condo together, I was quietly pleased that this behemoth didn't fit in anywhere. Fast forward a few decades and my current GF has almost the exact same wall unit in her den/TV room.:rolleyes:

P.S. I've little doubt that yours is vibrating along with the bass like an out of step passive radiator, i.e. directly muddying the bass, rather than affecting the amp in any appreciable way.
 
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Alco said:
I'm pretty confident that the new furniture is the main cause. (as things sounded fine on the Ikea cabinet)
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Yes, but the question is whether the cabinet is changing the acoustics of the room, or if, as you were thinking in the OP, that the cabinet was affecting the amp itself. My guess is the former, and that messing with vibration isolation for the solid state electronics won’t help. Hence the suggestion to put the amp on the floor and swap the furniture to rule it in/out. If it is an acoustics problem then I don’t buying isolating hifi furniture is going to solve anything, unless it just happens to be better acoustically.

And, IMO what you have looks a lot better than a purpose built audiophile trophy shelf. :)
 
I found that sticking felt pads between the adjustable shelves and their support brackets did wonders. Also felt pads between the back edges of any adjustable shelves and where they make contact with the pressboard back panel.
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Aha, thanks Graig. I do have several small, self-adhesive felt-pads, so it's something that I can easily try. (maybe also try felt pads underneath the bamboo boards ?)

IMO what you have looks a lot better than a purpose built audiophile trophy shelf[/.
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Thanks and I agree. Some dedicated HiFi-racks do look good imo, but most of 'em are open racks, so they won't hide any of the cable spaghetti.
(I often see (on websites or brochures) manufacturers of these racks show their products displayed with disconnected HiFi components. To make it look neat and tidy, but obviously this doesn't represent a real life system)

I also think that removing the new cabinet and/or getting the old Ikea unit back in place will gain more/better results than experimenting with different sorts of isolation for the Rega amp. Still, life is all about compromises and I'd like to find a acceptable balance between sound quality and pleasing aestetics.

Thank you all, for all the info. Much appreciated! :) I'll look into the advice I've been given, this weekend.
 
Well, I'm back. (and so is the Ikea cabinet, back in place) This afternoon I first tried some of the suggestions that were given. (putting small pieces of felt pads on both sides and back of the adjustable shelves and their support brackets. After that the shelves sat very tight, so no more friction there. I also tried some felt pads underneath the bamboo boards. I thought it did something (good) to the bass (slighty less muddy), but tbh the difference was so minimal that it might've just been my imagination.

I also had 4 cones left, that I placed underneath the bamboo board where the Rega amp sits on. Actually, more or less with the same minor results.
In the end I got the good ol' Ikea cabinet back in place and... bingo! :) I'm a bit surprised what a difference such a cheap, simple piece of furniture can make to such an equally simple and modest system! Everything fell back into place again.

I'm confident now that Rega gear (not only their TT's) perform best on something light and rigid.
(the oak cabinet was so heavy, that I risked some serious back ache, lifting and dragging it into my spare bedroom.
The small Ikea cabinet otoh I could hold on one hand, while I opened the door of my living room!)

So, end of the story is... unfortunately, getting the heavy, oak cabinet was a bit of a mistake. (just put it up for sale)
For now, the Ikea Besta cabinet will do fine, and I'll probably investigate some upgrade options in the new year. :)
 
Alco said:
I'm confident now that Rega gear (not only their TT's) perform best on something light and rigid.
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And I am confident that you would have had the same bass muddle had you left the new cabinet exactly where it was and moved your electronics back onto the Ikea.

Had you bought a dining room sideboard with hutch and filled it with crystalware, you'd have been complaining of muddled bass and ringing treble.

Not a criticism of your choices, BTW, only that your confidence in your conclusion is likely to be ill founded, i.e. without further research than "I removed the resonating cabinet from the room, therefore Rega electronics are sensitive to what they are placed upon".

Regardless, glad to hear that things are sounding better.
 
Alco said:
Hi guys,

Last week I ordered this heavy, (partial) solid oak cabinet, to place my system on/in.
8217219-01.jpg

At this moment my simple system only comprises a Rega IO and Sonos Connect(experimenting with Bluesound Node N130).
I ordered the oak cabinet as it looks good/better, (prefer real wood/feneer) than my much smaller, cheap white Ikea Besta.
My intension was to place a (probably Rega) TT on the right side of it, next to the IO amp, in the near future.

So far I'm (kinda) happy with the looks, but... the sound definitely took a stap back. o_O:(
The soundstage now is a bit less spacious, but the most obvious sonic dissapointment is that bass has become a bit emphasized and muddy.

Now, I'm aware that Rega TT's perform at their best when placed on a light rigid support, but does that also count for Rega electronics ?
Anyone else here had a similar experience with Rega electronics ?

Kind regards,
Alco
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Boxes resonate.
Try placing a heavy stone slab under the record player and something that decouples the stone from the cabinet (blutac, sorbothane).

Better still, get a wall shelf.
 
I read/thought it back again and I must say you do have a good point there, Graig B.
It probably isn't just only the weight of both cabinets that made the perceived difference in sound quality. Anyway, the end result remaines the same. The oak cabinet has got to go.

Boxes resonate.
Try placing a heavy stone slab under the record player and something that decouples the stone from the cabinet (blutac, sorbothane).
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That's a bit difficult to try. I don't have a heavy stone slab lying around somewhere. Apart from that, I don't have a record player yet and if I decide to get one it will most likely be a Rega, which perform at their best on something as light as possible. (so anything but a stone/marble slab)

Better still, get a wall shelf.
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Yes, I think that's what I'm going for. (most affordable and sonically probably the best option)
 
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