Rega electronics (also) perform better on light rigid support ? (just as their TT's)

[Alco]

Hi guys,

Last week I ordered this heavy, (partial) solid oak cabinet, to place my system on/in.

At this moment my simple system only comprises a Rega IO and Sonos Connect(experimenting with Bluesound Node N130).
I ordered the oak cabinet as it looks good/better, (prefer real wood/feneer) than my much smaller, cheap white Ikea Besta.
My intension was to place a (probably Rega) TT on the right side of it, next to the IO amp, in the near future.

So far I'm (kinda) happy with the looks, but... the sound definitely took a stap back.
The soundstage now is a bit less spacious, but the most obvious sonic dissapointment is that bass has become a bit emphasized and muddy.

Now, I'm aware that Rega TT's perform at their best when placed on a light rigid support, but does that also count for Rega electronics ?
Anyone else here had a similar experience with Rega electronics ?

Kind regards,
Alco

 

[RoA]

You say your previous rack was much smaller. Perhaps therein is the explanation if your speaker are on the same plane as your rack?

 

[booja30]

Turntables, phono stages, valve amps, are the sorts of things that would be susceptible to vibration. Solid state (aside from maybe MC stage), shouldn’t be affected by vibration. IMO hifi furniture, dampening/isolation, etc. is mostly foo for solid state. RoA is on the right track that your new cabinet could have modified the room acoustically.

BTW here’s a nice article about an experiment that went to some extremes to show that microphony is not an issue for solid state:

https://www.audio-forums.com/articles/microphonic-effects-on-solid-state-circuits.17/

Whenever this link has been posted in threads in the past it usually gets ignored.

 

[Alco]

You say your previous rack was much smaller. Perhaps therein is the explanation if your speaker are on the same plane as your rack?

That will indeed explain the less spacious soundstage, and I can understand and accept that, but the emphasized, muddy bass was more of a surprise to me actually.

 

[HifiDan]

I had my Rega TT’s on various racks (glass, wood etc) but to really get the best out of them, had them on a Townshend Audio Siesmic Sink platform with h load cells A (red dot).

they need isolation, pretty much like all TT’s.

For me, solid wood racks always best, glass/metal always sounded a bit harsh but lean sounding. Wood seems to calm things down a bit which is maybe what you are getting. Maybe try putting a glass isolation platform (cheap cutting board will do) under your gear to get some sparkle back.

 

[Alco]

Thanks for the replies, Booja30 and HifiDan! With TT's I can fully understand the benefits of isolation and the effect of different supports/material, but I did not expect the Rega amp to be that sensitive to what it sits on.

Btw, I forgot to mention that I already removed the metal feet underneath the cabinet, and replaced them with 4 cones/spikes, lowering the total height to the same level as the Ikea Besta I was using (40cm/16"). Also I'm using a bamboo chopping board with small sorbothane dots as an isolation platform for the amp. This seemed to have improved focus a bit. I don't feel that treble lost some of its sparkle/attack. It's mainly the bass that's now emphasized a bit and became a bit muddy/less controlled.

 

[RoA]

I have personally never noticed any difference in sound using different racks.

 

[Timcat]

The link posted above explains why the problem you have is not due to the fact that you have supported your solid state kit on a new heavier cabinet. However, looking at the picture of your new cabinet, it would seem to me that it is likely that it is having a direct effect on your room acoustics. Firstly, it is large and flat sided and will alter your room acoustics for this reason alone. Its large flat panels might also resonate at a particular frequency in the bass when excited by the output from your speakers. This will not effect your electronics, but it will result in the panels feeding sound back into your room at their resonant frequency, which is likely to make your bass sound muddy and somewhat one note like.

 

[Alco]

I have personally never noticed any difference in sound using different racks.

I have but... overall I found the differences/improvements of dedicated HiFi racks to be quite small. (at least in relation to the often absurd prices)

I remember I once ordered a Naim Fraim, for my fairly modest Naim (Nait 5i, CD5xs, FC) system, somewhere around 2005.
(ok, I confess, mainly got it because (at that time) I thought it looked good with Naim gear in/on it)
The difference was clearly audible, but in hindsight nowhere near worth the huge outlay!
(appr. € 2200,- vs appr. € 40,- for my Ikea Corras cabinet on 3 cones)

 

[Tim Jones]

IME, putting a Rega deck (and many others) on a massy table or rack is not a good idea.

If it can't go on a dedicated wall shelf, the best idea is something like one of the old Sound Org or Audio Tech tables.

Dedicated stands can help with electronics that are vibration sensitive, but it is a much less marked effect, and frequently overdone - especially given the huge prices of some of these racks.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I've also noticed similar effects with electronics on massy shelves (in my case, solid oak kitchen worktops built into an alcove). I much prefer lower mass shelves, bamboo etc. The effect on the bass (dominant, slow, flabby) and dynamics (sat on) is quite marked, IME.

 

[Alco]

IME, putting a Rega deck (and many others) on a massy table or rack is not a good idea.
If it can't go on a dedicated wall shelf, the best idea is something like one of the old Sound Org or Audio Tech tables.

My intension was to put some sort of isolation platform (probably Ikea bamboo chopping board) between the oak cabinet and the tt.

I do have the option to mount a dedicated wall shelf. Before I ordered the oak cabinet I thought about getting the Rega wallshelf, but imho a Rega P3 looks a bit odd on it, as the P3 is wider than the Rega wall-shelf.

Thanks so far guys. I think in the end I better sell the oak cabinet if I wan't to get the best out of my (future) system.

 

[John]

A dedicated light rigid stand for each component is best. I found this to be the case with turntables, power supplies, preamps and power amps. In fact I thought it was a waste of money to overlook their importance.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

My intension was to put some sort of isolation platform (probably Ikea bamboo chopping board) between the oak cabinet and the tt.

I do have the option to mount a dedicated wall shelf. Before I ordered the oak cabinet I thought about getting the Rega wallshelf, but imho a Rega P3 looks a bit odd on it, as the P3 is wider than the Rega wall-shelf.

Thanks so far guys. I think in the end I better sell the oak cabinet if I wan't to get the best out of my (future) system.

Depending on how much you're thinking of spending, I think the Lateral Audio Kadenz, or Quadraspire (the bamboo one) equipment stands offer pretty good performance at reasonable cost, and lend themselves to further tweaks if you've a mind to, such as cones, isolation feet, etc, but they start by putting you in a good place to begin with.

 

[Alco]

I think the Lateral Audio Kadenz, or Quadraspire (the bamboo one) equipment stands offer pretty good performance at reasonable cost

Thanks Sue Pertwee-Tyr. (or should I say Steve) The Lateral Audio racks look superb! I also like the looks of the Quadraspire bamboo racks.
They do cost 'a bit' more than I'd like to spend. I'm was considering the more affordable SolidSteel S2-3. (unfortunately only available in black)

Only issue with most of these open racks is that it's hard to hide most of the cable spaghetti out of site.
For now I think I'll just put my Ikea Besta back in place again, and perhaps get either a dedicated TT wallshelf later of invest in a quality rack like the Quadraspire or Solidsteel. (no Lateral Audio dealers in my country)

Also the Atacama Apollo Storm might be an option.

 

[Mr Pig]

Good manufacturers put a lot of thought and effort into management of energy within the structure of their turntables. Rega are a perfect example with their low-mass philosophy, which aims to minimise the amount of resonance the deck can pick up. But whatever you sit the turntable on effectively becomes part of the structure of that turntable!

I'm not saying there is no benefit to effective turntable design but can undo a chunk of that good work by sitting the deck on a big, boomy wooden box, which is precisely what a lot of people do. I have not met a turntable yet which was not sensitive to what it is sitting on. And if the rest of the system is clear enough, you are going to hear it.

And like a lot of things there is no clear cut answer. If you like the effect your turntable support has then fine, it doesn't matter what it is, but the muddying of the sound you describe is exactly what I would expect to happen if you put the deck on a big box. It's going to catch a lot of sound which will bounce around inside it and be fed up into the turntable.

Electronics are also effected by what they sit on but to a much lesser degree. They certainly benefit from being on a good support but it's nowhere near as critical as a turntable. If you have to compromise by only getting the deck off the box it's not a disaster. Of course if, for the sake of domestic harmony, you'd rather keep the turntable on the box too that's ok. You'll soon get used to the sound and it won't bother you so much. It's your call.

 

[Craig B]

The link posted above explains why the problem you have is not due to the fact that you have supported your solid state kit on a new heavier cabinet. However, looking at the picture of your new cabinet, it would seem to me that it is likely that it is having a direct effect on your room acoustics. Firstly, it is large and flat sided and will alter your room acoustics for this reason alone. Its large flat panels might also resonate at a particular frequency in the bass when excited by the output from your speakers. This will not effect your electronics, but it will result in the panels feeding sound back into your room at their resonant frequency, which is likely to make your bass sound muddy and somewhat one note like.

IIRC, Alco's listening room was always somewhat sparsely furnished/dedicated. If this is still the case then it would certainly explain how such cabinet resonances can be quite noticable. I've had similar experiences myself, especially so when moving pieces of furniture into or out of acoustically familiar rooms.

 

[Alco]

the muddying of the sound you describe is exactly what I would expect to happen if you put the deck on a big box. It's going to catch a lot of sound which will bounce around inside it and be fed up into the turntable.

I understand and can imagine that being the cause Mr Pig and eventhough the oak cabinet (now) has the same hight as the Ikea Besta cabinet. (only 11" wider on both sides) I'm afraid it'll have to go then.

There's no SWMBO so I only have to take my own demands into account when it comes to domestic harmony.
(placing a tt wallbracket above the oak cabinet does not life up to my demands!)

 

[Folkman]

Using the Rega Isis and Osiris on a Isoblue rack , which is a known good match for the Regas , i found worthwhile improvement using a Townshend Seismic Platform under each.

A cheap test is easy to do to see if this would work for you. All you need is a small inner tube [wheelbarrow size] and a suitably sized piece of wood on top. Inflate the tube to give a nice bounce when loaded. Thats how i did it and its surprising how close the results were to the Townshend platforms. Better than any platforms / footers / spikes etc i tried.

Looked terrible but shows whether thats the way to go or not.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I understand and can imagine that being the cause Mr Pig and eventhough the oak cabinet (now) has the same hight as the Ikea Besta cabinet. (only 11" wider on both sides) I'm afraid it'll have to go then.

There's no SWMBO so I only have to take my own demands into account when it comes to domestic harmony.
(placing a tt wallbracket above the oak cabinet does not life up to my demands!)

One thing I might suggest, given you already have the oak cabinet and also the IKEA bamboo boards, would be to experiment with something other than Sorbothane under the bamboo boards. Start by putting the board directly on the oak shelf, then maybe look at using cones or something similar to lift it off that surface instead of Sorbothane. See what happens, that may tell you something about the way forward via isolation, or more carefully managed coupling.