Recommendation to top the best speakers I've owned. ATC

[Mike Reed]

I understand ATC has never been called warm, but always on the harsh, bright side of the spectrum. In pro audio, you will see however that ATC is more often described as warm though. Hifi lovers are too used to warm speakers while pro audio peeps are too used to analytical speakers. That goes to show ATC is really balanced.

An interesting philosophy that paints professional speaker users as paint stripping merchants and the domestic audio fraternity as lush lovers. Your conclusion that the happy medium must be the true nirvana is again, revolutionary.

ATC is really poor at low volume,

Most small speakers are compromised in that way, esp. if they are I.B. designs (as I believe many ATC speakers are). The larger the speaker (and bass/mid units) the more efficient they become at lower amplification levels generally. One reason (or THE reason) why most integrateds once had booster circuits for bass. I'm not sure if being active compensates for this, but very few smaller boxes are active, presumably for capacity reasons.

 

[Goat]

ATC SMC11 actually gave me a headache, so matching is critical. Detail was fabulous, but after living with Proac, it was impossible to live with that speaker. I wish I could have tried with different amps, the potential was there.

Proac are a brand I've never demoed. Love my Spendor 4/5s (and enjoyed the ATC SCM11, albeit just slightly too ruthless), but I remain intrigued by proacs though, maybe the DB1 or D2R. How would you describe the sonic differences between the ATC and proac?

 

[Mike Reed]

How would you describe the sonic differences between the ATC and proac?

Chalk and cheese? It used to be so, two, maybe three decades ago but I've no idea about later models. The ProAcs were on the warmer side of neutral (bit like Benz cart's) and were extremely musical yet dynamic with it. Easy loads; designed with valves (ARC) but equally good with s/s (in my case, Naim).

However, although I often heard the smaller and lesser ProAcs, my real experience is limited to the original Response models. The ATC rooms at shows were always visited, though I only remember the larger models, which were dynamic and detailed with great authority (although that would be the amplification used) though not in the 'warmish, mellifluous' camp.

 

[TonyScarlett]

I have owned both Amphion Argon 3S & Argon 1 speakers, I marginally preferred the 1s for there sweeter midrange but the 3S dig deeper in the bass. Neither of them were in any way bright, in fact they have the smoothest least fatiguing top end of any speaker I have owned.
If your placement options are compromised as yours seem to be, then they should be at the top of your audition list.
TS

 

[John Phillips]

Proac are a brand I've never demoed. Love my Spendor 4/5s (and enjoyed the ATC SCM11, albeit just slightly too ruthless), but I remain intrigued by proacs though, maybe the DB1 or D2R. How would you describe the sonic differences between the ATC and proac?

I went from Proac (D15) to ATC (SCM50A). This is not going to answer the general Proac vs ATC question as I went up a couple of sizes from Proac to ATC. However:

• The top end of the D15 was too "polite" compared to what I heard in the concert hall.
• The bottom end of the D15 was quite extended but not enough to do justice to piano and orchestral bass instruments (and the bottom end the D15 had just didn't sound good enough at any reasonable level).
• The dynamics of the D15 were a bit limited and I found there was a clear limit to how loud felt comfortable.
• The tonality of the D15 favoured its excellent mid-range (e.g. voices) too much over the wider range (e.g. accompanying instruments).

In case it sounds otherwise, the Proacs were here for about 12 years and were very enjoyable indeed. They did opera superbly (one of my interests) but I wanted something that had broader capabilities. It's quite possible bigger Proacs could have sufficed but I found what I was looking for in ATC first. The ATC SCM40A worked too and was my original intention but some investments had worked very well and I decided to indulge myself.

 

[AndyU]

• Thanks all for the comments. I actually have this in a desktop setting listening from 1m away. Not optimal and everything, but i make do.
  
  that is why I am looking at really small speakers (<6.5inch). Room is 5mX4mX 3.4m (height).
  
  
  
  
  I understand ATC has never been called warm, but always on the harsh, bright side of the spectrum. In pro audio, you will see however that ATC is more often described as warm though. Hifi lovers are too used to warm speakers while pro audio peeps are too used to analytical speakers. That goes to show ATC is really balanced.
  
  
  
  I seem to hear it more often as bright. Shall go and have a listen!
  
  
  
  ATC is really poor at low volume, if you use the wrong amp. I've previously used Rotel and the ATC just couldn't come alive at low volume. For amps like Hegel h160 and ATC P1, they are great at low volume as well.

  
  
  Maybe have a look at Neumann KH80 or KH120 or KH310? All good, neutral active speakers designed for near-field listening, with some room adjustment controls.

 

[Bronzeage]

Proac are a brand I've never demoed. Love my Spendor 4/5s (and enjoyed the ATC SCM11, albeit just slightly too ruthless), but I remain intrigued by proacs though, maybe the DB1 or D2R. How would you describe the sonic differences between the ATC and proac?

My points of comparison are with the Proac Tablette Anniversary.
The major differences were:

1. Vocals sounded alive, full of body and texture, with Proac. ATC sounded, frankly, dull.
2. Bass, no comparison, the smaller Tablette was warmer, deeper, punchier.
3. Detail, ATC wins here by some margin.
4. The only way I can describe this is by saying the Proacs sound natural, ATC sounded more like a forensic tool.

These are just my opinions, if I never heard the Proacs I probably would have tried other options to get the best out of the ATC, but as it was, not much point. I am sure there are those who might prefer the ATC in other setups.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

having owned the argon 1, id describe them as bright and honestly horrible.
the amphion one18 were in a totally other league

I've noticed from various posts you've made, that you seem to be particularly sensitive to treble energy. It may be that what you perceive as bright, many of us would describe differently. I know you've also commented on the effect of various tweeters on your tinnitus, so perhaps this may go some way to explain your apparent sensitivity to high frequencies?

 

[Mike Reed]

I went from Proac (D15) to ATC (SCM50A). This is not going to answer the general Proac vs ATC question as I went up a couple of sizes from Proac to ATC. However:

Not just a couple of sizes, John, but from passive to active and something i.r.o.3X the price (?) From your observations on these two, I'd conclude that the ProAc wins !!! Had to look these up, as I thought the D15 was the later R2.5 but surprised to find it's the R1.5. The smallest of their floor-standers. I auditioned the R2.5s in the nineties at Billy Vee, but ended up with the bigger ones (three of them in succession). The late John Michell, from whom I bought my first ProAc, used to make parts for ProAc and, I believe, when they were Celeste.

 

[hifinutt]

Proac are a brand I've never demoed. Love my Spendor 4/5s (and enjoyed the ATC SCM11, albeit just slightly too ruthless), but I remain intrigued by proacs though, maybe the DB1 or D2R. How would you describe the sonic differences between the ATC and proac?

Heard loads of proac and owned 125 . 2 years ago i heard a mid range pair at the owners house with some lovely SS amps . beautiful engaging and wow . then those same speakers went to a bake off used with some valve amps in a massive room . well they sounded not so good to me at all . most odd . i guess these things are so room and amp dependant

i will add the owner [ forgive me if you are reading this !! ] changed to atc and rapidly got the active version .

 

[yunie_]

An interesting philosophy that paints professional speaker users as paint stripping merchants and the domestic audio fraternity as lush lovers. Your conclusion that the happy medium must be the true nirvana is again, revolutionary.

Well, I'm quite careful with my words so I did not mean all pro audio likes bright and all home audio likes warm. But in a general, majority sense, I guess you are on point. Especially with pro audio. They love their studio monitors bright and analytical. I bet if there's a large sample study on this, it will prove my point right.

Maybe have a look at Neumann KH80 or KH120 or KH310? All good, neutral active speakers designed for near-field listening, with some room adjustment controls.

I owned KH120a previously. They are great for hip hop, but perhaps the worst speakers I've heard for vocals. They really know how to suck the emotions out of vocals.

 

[Mike Reed]

then those same speakers went to a bake off used with some valve amps in a massive room . well they sounded not so good to me at all . most odd . i guess these things are so room and amp dependant

Yes, the room and maybe the valve amp wasn't a push-pull with a bit of welly. Earlier ProAcs (well, at least the Response range) were designed around ARC valve amps. By the time I got valved mono's instead of Naim 135s I only had the Response Fours and they were better with the valves.

 

[JTC]

ATC do make some lovely speakers. I enjoyed mine but they were a bit big for my room.

 

[yunie_]

Just an update. Tried argon helium 510 and didn't find the speakers bright or anything. It is powered by bel canto e.one. The bass is surprisingly, lacking. Maybe it's because it's placed in the middle of a large room. Even though lacking, it still sounded tight and fast.

Tried argon 3s as well. Seems a little less warm than helium.

The veneer of helium isn't as nice as I thought it would be. But nonetheless, I've zeroed in on amphion argon. I have a soft spot for speakers with pro audio connection and amphion has been the flavour of the year for several years now after the epic gearslutz thread. The space grey colour is pretty nice as well.

Gonna place an order tmr. Any amphion argon lovers or haters?

 

[Curtis]

The proac response 1SC was a bit special.
May be tricky to locate a pair these days.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I've noticed from various posts you've made, that you seem to be particularly sensitive to treble energy. It may be that what you perceive as bright, many of us would describe differently. I know you've also commented on the effect of various tweeters on your tinnitus, so perhaps this may go some way to explain your apparent sensitivity to high frequencies?

Just an update to this post. There’s an interesting post about Hyperacusis over on the ‘warmth’ thread that might bear considering.

Warmth introduced by kit

 

[R-J]

I have recently replaced a pair of PMC twenty5.23s with Sonus Faber Olympica Nova II. I am still running in the new speakers, but first impressions are extremely favourable.

 

[Ali T]

Just an update. Tried argon helium 510 and didn't find the speakers bright or anything. It is powered by bel canto e.one. The bass is surprisingly, lacking. Maybe it's because it's placed in the middle of a large room. Even though lacking, it still sounded tight and fast.

Tried argon 3s as well. Seems a little less warm than helium.

The veneer of helium isn't as nice as I thought it would be. But nonetheless, I've zeroed in on amphion argon. I have a soft spot for speakers with pro audio connection and amphion has been the flavour of the year for several years now after the epic gearslutz thread. The space grey colour is pretty nice as well.

Gonna place an order tmr. Any amphion argon lovers or haters?

Heard the Kryptons at the Leamington show I think it was a couple of years ago. Best sound of the show for me.

 

[Woodface]

I don’t think my ATCs have character as such but are dynamic & even handed.

A lot of people listen loud to ATCs because they can but mine work wonderfully in the 65-70db range.

 

[406v6]

My room is a touch smaller than yunie’s and a pair of ProAc D20R works very well. Although floor standing the footprint they take up is near exactly the same as most stand mounts on their stands. I appreciate the visual bulk is greater but the floor space used is the same. You can’t put them on a book shelf but who does that these days ?

I can’t say I’ve done an A-B comparison with ATC but have listened to a fair number of speakers over the last 40 years at dealers and shows and it’s rare for one to really work for my ears. When I heard them at my local dealer while demo’ing a load of small stand mounts there was no contest and I had to have them. The ProAc is smooth yet dynamic and has excellent bass even at low to mid volume. It goes down really low but doesn’t dominate. Speech – a difficult test for any speaker – is excellent. The treble is clear and never harsh – dependent on source. The D20R even has its own built in stand. Their only downsides are the price, nudging £3k, and the ribbon tweeter being moderately directional.

Hearing PMCs at shows driven by Bryston electronics always sound right on the edge of going hard and I’d be concerned whether I could live with them long term.