flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
There's some good discussion in this thread and then there's the man child flutteringwow's contributions
You're welcome!
Never thought racism in F1 that way.
Racism, sexism etc in sport.
- Thread starter Tony Lockhart
- Start date
You're welcome!
Never thought racism in F1 that way.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Thinking out loud here...
The Venus Williams example is relevant because the argument against trans-women competing against cis-women is often framed in terms of the greater physical strength (on average) of the former. Thus, the competition is deemed to be unfair.
The Venus Williams example makes it clear that it is physical strength that is the issue, not being trans in itself.
So, is one way forward to define categories in sport based on physical strength, muscle mass, or whatever, rather than sex at birth. This is already done in boxing (though I realise that categorisation by weight is in addition to, not instead of, categorisation by sex).
Is there any principled reason why this could not work, or would not be fair?
Just an idea. Probably dumb.
The Venus Williams example is relevant because the argument against trans-women competing against cis-women is often framed in terms of the greater physical strength (on average) of the former. Thus, the competition is deemed to be unfair.
The Venus Williams example makes it clear that it is physical strength that is the issue, not being trans in itself.
So, is one way forward to define categories in sport based on physical strength, muscle mass, or whatever, rather than sex at birth. This is already done in boxing (though I realise that categorisation by weight is in addition to, not instead of, categorisation by sex).
Is there any principled reason why this could not work, or would not be fair?
Just an idea. Probably dumb.
Yep, it’s definitely pretty dumb.
The Williams sisters were far more than just strength, they were very skilful. They did get beaten by other tennis players. I don’t see them as a relevant reference point.
I think if you let trans athletes into womens tournaments for a period of time we will soon see what happens.
Wasn’t there an East German athlete who competed as a women but was later found to be male? I think a better reference is to look back at some of the East European athletes who were juiced to their eyeballs with testosterone; they dominated over a number of track & field events.
Look at all the banned substances & see if there is any correlation to physiological changes.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
No, not dumb at all. I tend along those lines myself.
davidsrsb
pfm Member
On the other hand I am the worlds slowest karter as I am 6'3" and weigh almost 100 kg.
Weight is very important, while upper body strength is needed for the cornering forces
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I think our limb/torso ratios also differ.
When the Ford Focus was launched, Ford said that it had been designed so that anyone from a 4ft 10in woman to a 6ft 8in man could drive the Focus comfortably. That was important to Ford as up til then, almost all cars as far as I know were designed around male limb/torso ratios.
Remember years ago how often you’d see a female driving a car with her face almost on top of the steering wheel? You don’t see it so often now.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Sorry but I do not understand your writing. (LMAO, MX, red bulls, wings, old voices?)
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Lightweight shorty…..
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
Google will help...but it's interesting that you commented on something whose context was built around certain elements that you have now said you don't understand...
PaulMB
pfm Member
Google will not help because I'm damned if I'm going to waste my time on Google trying to work out what you are on about. But you'll say that's because I'm a racist, sexist, fascist, and a Tory to boot. What is the point of turning a serene, intelligent discussion into an unpleasant and senseless argument?
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
"I don't know what you were talking about but I made a comment on it anyway and now I don't want to use my time to understand what you were talking about in your post that I commented on because (maybe?) I fear that I may fall into the category that you were talking about meaning I probably did understand it "
That's your choice if you want, not mine. I merely answered your post and explained that there are a group of bigots that invade the F1 threads (being a fairly long term participant in them and you haven't made any comments in them), as you didn't know of any instances where Tonys comment was applicable about racism in sport and F1 in particular. You started the unpleasant argument, not me, I just summarised my view for you as my reference point as you have to have seen the threads evolve over the years (and with many deleted posts/people banned from the thread etc that reading them now wouldn't be viewable)...which you now claim after commenting on, you didn't understand.
Women's and men's tennis and football are totally different sports due to the genetic make up of the players - if anything, I regard the women's equivalents as more pure and arguably better to watch on occasions, the men's game has an 'edge' due to the unarguable fact of strength and power (not in an alpha male beating your chest way).
Neither men's or women's equivalents are any better than the other, whether or not the men would win '99 times out of 100'.
Neither men's or women's equivalents are any better than the other, whether or not the men would win '99 times out of 100'.
PaulMB
pfm Member
I know it is pretty banal, but women tend to move more gracefully than men. For me, certainly, watching a female single-sculler is more pleasant than watching a man. I suppose it is that the women are usually long and thin, while the men tend to be more chunky, so one has a "purer" impression of the technique with the women. On the other hand, I've heard women say they like to watch the men because of the greater impression of power. So there may be a subconscious sexual element.
Women's football, for example is so far removed from men's football but the lack of so much pace, strength etc gives way to skill, flow and a purity that is sometimes lost in the men's game. Things are given a little more time, the same as Italian football of old and that had the appearance of pure football too.
I liken it to when I first saw Japan playing in the Rugby World Cup - they didn't have the size or strength of most of the other competitors but that was sacrificed for a really flowing game, almost like sevens.
Yes I can. it's blinding ly obvious. But I'm not wasting breath on someone who won't listen.