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Quest for the Best Amplifier

My ‘Quest’ was realised a few years ago. After having dreamed of owning a KONDO amp, I stumbled across a mint condition Overture. I believe it was first Overture to have been imported into The UK. I bought it ‘unheard’. Astonishing amplifier, mellifluous and most beautifully graceful. Whether it represents the ‘Best’ - well, who knows!

We ended up selling it. A few years have passed (vanished!) and the beautiful Overture has been replaced with a £119.99 t-amp. Wow, quite superb in a Level 2 Audio Note system. No regrets.
 
is it possible to have a system that has it all? I mean, there's no perfect car. If you want to race, you need a sports car. If you want to relax, you need a limo. And if you need to go offroad, an SUV is preferable. Maybe the same applies with audio...
Yes, but it's very hard to find the overall system, requiring lots of experimentation to find components with the right synergy. The end result is often a significant $outlay, and takes up a fair for of space. This isn't always practical, for all the obvious reasons. ;)
 
As ever it’s buy what you like the sound of. We all have differing ideas as to what sounds right.

Indeed, and I'll add the concept of 'enough' to the discussion: as I get older, I find it easier to focus on what I have and what's good enough. Of course, many of us here do suffer from audiophile upgraditis (whether we choose to admit it, or not) but often this is just chasing rainbows, with impulsive purchases and quick disposals. Sometimes, an impulse works out just fine, and in my case it was the Naim Supernait 3 that I bought from a nice chap here on PFM - that amplifier astonishes me, in a good way, and I always come back to it after being seduced by valves etc. The Supernait 3 is, for me, enough.

Now, tonearms and cartridges - that's another matter altogether!
 
Indeed, and I'll add the concept of 'enough' to the discussion: as I get older, I find it easier to focus on what I have and what's good enough. Of course, many of us here do suffer from audiophile upgraditis (whether we choose to admit it, or not) but often this is just chasing rainbows, with impulsive purchases and quick disposals. Sometimes, an impulse works out just fine, and in my case it was the Naim Supernait 3 that I bought from a nice chap here on PFM - that amplifier astonishes me, in a good way, and I always come back to it after being seduced by valves etc. The Supernait 3 is, for me, enough.

Now, tonearms and cartridges - that's another matter altogether!
Totally agree. I tend to keep gear a long time & have no real envy of other people’s set ups. I think a Supernait into a pair of good speakers enough for most people to be honest. Excellent value 2nd hand also.
 
The Supernait 3 is, for me, enough.
That's kind of where I'm at with the Krell integrated in my main system. It's possible that I might upgrade other parts of that system (the streamer being the most likely) but the amp is most definitely good enough for me, especially in combination with a set of speakers (Wilson Benesch) that seem to suit it and my room. It might also help that given the way hi-fi prices are going then upgrading the amp and the speakers (which were both pretty cheap 2nd hand) would cost a lot more that I'd want to be paying for any kind of marginal gain.
 
When I was demoing systems years back one of the set-ups I heard then and really liked had a Krell integrated into some nice stand mount speakers (Sonus Faber ones). At the time I didn't want to spend that sort of money (we just demo'd it because it was already set-up at the dealer) so went with an entry-level Naim setup (92R/90.3/Credo's). Given what I've ended up with now (i.e. a Krell integrated into some nice stand mount speakers) then think of all the time and money I'd have saved if I'd just bought that at the time, instead of after a few decades of upgrading etc.
 
When I was demoing systems years back one of the set-ups I heard then and really liked had a Krell integrated into some nice stand mount speakers (Sonus Faber ones). At the time I didn't want to spend that sort of money (we just demo'd it because it was already set-up at the dealer) so went with an entry-level Naim setup (92R/90.3/Credo's). Given what I've ended up with now (i.e. a Krell integrated into some nice stand mount speakers) then think of all the time and money I'd have saved if I'd just bought that at the time, instead of after a few decades of upgrading etc.
That's a good point.

Some years ago I decided to front load my hifi "investment" in order to maximize the time I could enjoy it. So I considered the maximum reasonable amount I could spend in amp+ speakers/ subwoofers and tried to buy what I liked as quickly as possible. I'm very happy to have gone down this route.

Regarding the digital combo, as tech tends to evolve, I did not decide the same way and, although I like what I now have, I may try and upgrade it in the next few years.
 
What about adding a Hicap dr? ;)
I tried - twice. A few years ago I had a SuperNait 2 and that benefitted massively from a HiCap DR, but with the SuperNait 3, the HiCap DR has no positive effect; indeed all aspects of SQ suffered and the amplifier sounds so much better on its own. I thought that the first HiCap DR was faulty, and returned it, but a second one was the same.

I can only assume that, since the SuperNait3 already has DR stuff inside, there is no benefit from that external PSU with its additional wires and connectors. Actually, I get a feeling that the SuperNait3 is far better all round than Naim intended for its price point and position in their range. Not only is it more than good enough for me, but for what I need and can accommodate, it may well be (in that context and referring back to the OP) the best amplifier. YMMV, of course, and individual tastes do differ.
 
Indeed, and I'll add the concept of 'enough' to the discussion: as I get older, I find it easier to focus on what I have and what's good enough. Of course, many of us here do suffer from audiophile upgraditis (whether we choose to admit it, or not) but often this is just chasing rainbows, with impulsive purchases and quick disposals. Sometimes, an impulse works out just fine, and in my case it was the Naim Supernait 3 that I bought from a nice chap here on PFM - that amplifier astonishes me, in a good way, and I always come back to it after being seduced by valves etc. The Supernait 3 is, for me, enough.

Now, tonearms and cartridges - that's another matter altogether!
Sounds like a great place to be! What's the rest of your system at the moment?
 
So, my Starkrimsons are back from Nord who 'solved' the cutting out problem when my mains goes over 245v by fitting 3 diodes per power rail. True it has solved the cutting out problem but completely bu@@ered the sound quality. :mad:Gone is the liquid midrange and detail replaced by harshness and fatiguing sound. They are IN5402 diodes and rated at 5amps so if I really needed to get near full power they would probably fail anyhow, but with 104db and 90db speakers that's not going to happen.

I'm getting some of Leo's power supplies when he gets more in stock and also looking forward to maybe trying the linear ps route!
 
So, my Starkrimsons are back from Nord who 'solved' the cutting out problem when my mains goes over 245v by fitting 3 diodes per power rail. True it has solved the cutting out problem but completely bu@@ered the sound quality. :mad:Gone is the liquid midrange and detail replaced by harshness and fatiguing sound. They are IN5402 diodes and rated at 5amps so if I really needed to get near full power they would probably fail anyhow, but with 104db and 90db speakers that's not going to happen.

I'm getting some of Leo's power supplies when he gets more in stock and also looking forward to maybe trying the linear ps route!
Yeah it sounds like their SMPS should do the trick. The sound from them was exceptionally good in the amp I built for my friend. (It included the optional cap banks that sit atop the Starkrimson modules.)

I'm just about to begin another dual mono build using a linear supply, with a big 1000VA transformer with four 28V secondaries, and 60,000uF per rail (240,000 total :eek: ).
 
Yeah it sounds like their SMPS should do the trick. The sound from them was exceptionally good in the amp I built for my friend. (It included the optional cap banks that sit atop the Starkrimson modules.)

I'm just about to begin another dual mono build using a linear supply, with a big 1000VA transformer with four 28V secondaries, and 60,000uF per rail (240,000 total :eek: ).
That should do the job! I'll stick with Leo's smps probably as these are summer amps-unless you start telling us how amazing yours are sounding 😍
 
That should do the job! I'll stick with Leo's smps probably as these are summer amps-unless you start telling us how amazing yours are sounding 😍
If it turns out that the linear supply sounds a whole lot better, then I've told my friend that can he can have that one, because his speakers are far more demanding than my Cornwalls.
 
If it turns out that the linear supply sounds a whole lot better, then I've told my friend that can he can have that one, because his speakers are far more demanding than my Cornwalls.
I would actually expect a decent SMPS supply to be able to deliver more current:

SMPS Power Supplies vs Linear Power Supplies Per Linn
"I'd like to answer your question firstly with a bit of background information about the larger power amplifier supplies and why a SMPS is benefitial in that case, as I think it will aid the understanding overall, and then move onto the specifics about SMPS for line level products.

The nature of a musical signal means it doesn't present a constant load, particularly in a power amplifier where large amounts of current are provided to move the drive units. A linear power supply relies on the smoothing capacitors on its output to provide the power that the circuits use, which works well enough for a constant load, however as the load draws power from these capacitors they are only getting topped up at mains frequency, 50 or 60 times a second depending on the local mains supply, so as the load increases the capacitors are unable to keep up with large demands at higher frequencies than 50 or 60Hz. The signal created by a kick drum typically used in rock/pop music is a damped impulse, containing large amounts of energy at significantly higher frequencies than 50Hz which causes the smoothing capacitors to start discharging, and the power rails to droop, increasing the likelyhood of power amp clipping.

A switching power supply not only tops up the capacitors at its switching frequency, in the case of our power amplifiers that is in the region of 50,000 times a second, but it also has a feedback network that is monitoring the power rails being delivered. Meaning that the power rails are significantly less prone to mains related pumping (which will eventually occur with a switching supply if you increase the load on it far enough, in the case of our power amp supply that is when delivering over a kW continuously) and the power rails are significantly more stable.

In the case of a line level product, the loads are more constant so they are less susceptible to pumping in the fashion described above, but the circuits are still susceptible to the mains frequency and the harmonics thereof, all of which are audible frequencies, getting onto the power rails and signal ground. The devices within the audio circuits whether it be digital or analogue need to rely on their own power supply rejection ratio and bulk storage capacitors to prevent these frequencies from interfering with the audio.

A well designed switching supply won't introduce the mains frequency to either the power rails or the signal ground and will filter the rails such that the impact of the inaudible switching frequency is minimised (our switching frequency for line level products is 132kHz). It is much more practical to filter out high frequency noise than it is to filter low frequency due to the physical sizes of the components required to perform the task in hand.

The very nature of any switching supply means that it needs an input filter to prevent emissions getting onto the mains, this filter also doubles up to protect the power supply itself from noise that is already on the mains. In the majority of cases a linear power supply doesn't feature any form of filtering against RF noise which will then get through the mains transformer and into the connected circuitry.
 
I would actually expect a decent SMPS supply to be able to deliver more current:

SMPS Power Supplies vs Linear Power Supplies Per Linn
"I'd like to answer your question firstly with a bit of background information about the larger power amplifier supplies and why a SMPS is benefitial in that case, as I think it will aid the understanding overall, and then move onto the specifics about SMPS for line level products.

The nature of a musical signal means it doesn't present a constant load, particularly in a power amplifier where large amounts of current are provided to move the drive units. A linear power supply relies on the smoothing capacitors on its output to provide the power that the circuits use, which works well enough for a constant load, however as the load draws power from these capacitors they are only getting topped up at mains frequency, 50 or 60 times a second depending on the local mains supply, so as the load increases the capacitors are unable to keep up with large demands at higher frequencies than 50 or 60Hz. The signal created by a kick drum typically used in rock/pop music is a damped impulse, containing large amounts of energy at significantly higher frequencies than 50Hz which causes the smoothing capacitors to start discharging, and the power rails to droop, increasing the likelyhood of power amp clipping.

A switching power supply not only tops up the capacitors at its switching frequency, in the case of our power amplifiers that is in the region of 50,000 times a second, but it also has a feedback network that is monitoring the power rails being delivered. Meaning that the power rails are significantly less prone to mains related pumping (which will eventually occur with a switching supply if you increase the load on it far enough, in the case of our power amp supply that is when delivering over a kW continuously) and the power rails are significantly more stable.

In the case of a line level product, the loads are more constant so they are less susceptible to pumping in the fashion described above, but the circuits are still susceptible to the mains frequency and the harmonics thereof, all of which are audible frequencies, getting onto the power rails and signal ground. The devices within the audio circuits whether it be digital or analogue need to rely on their own power supply rejection ratio and bulk storage capacitors to prevent these frequencies from interfering with the audio.

A well designed switching supply won't introduce the mains frequency to either the power rails or the signal ground and will filter the rails such that the impact of the inaudible switching frequency is minimised (our switching frequency for line level products is 132kHz). It is much more practical to filter out high frequency noise than it is to filter low frequency due to the physical sizes of the components required to perform the task in hand.

The very nature of any switching supply means that it needs an input filter to prevent emissions getting onto the mains, this filter also doubles up to protect the power supply itself from noise that is already on the mains. In the majority of cases a linear power supply doesn't feature any form of filtering against RF noise which will then get through the mains transformer and into the connected circuitry.
Thanks for that. Interesting stuff! 🤔
 
Indeed, and I'll add the concept of 'enough' to the discussion: as I get older, I find it easier to focus on what I have and what's good enough. Of course, many of us here do suffer from audiophile upgraditis (whether we choose to admit it, or not) but often this is just chasing rainbows, with impulsive purchases and quick disposals. Sometimes, an impulse works out just fine, and in my case it was the Naim Supernait 3 that I bought from a nice chap here on PFM - that amplifier astonishes me, in a good way, and I always come back to it after being seduced by valves etc. The Supernait 3 is, for me, enough.

Now, tonearms and cartridges - that's another matter altogether!
I think the Supernait 3 is a superb box. If I wasn't into DIY it would be my amplifier of choice.

What I like about this box it has Naims signature PRaT in abundance but also brings out the decay in the music, so as well as producing the leading edge and body of the music you hear the end as well. This gives good coherence to the music so the individual players can be heard playing together with a sense of depth as well as width. This might not quite be the last word in detail or holographic imaging but it's still pretty good in that regard as well.

Add to that a good phono section and no need for a HiCap (I believe the internal supplies are already good enough) makes this a great buy (in my humble opinion)
 
So, my Starkrimsons are back from Nord who 'solved' the cutting out problem when my mains goes over 245v by fitting 3 diodes per power rail. True it has solved the cutting out problem but completely bu@@ered the sound quality. :mad:Gone is the liquid midrange and detail replaced by harshness and fatiguing sound. They are IN5402 diodes and rated at 5amps so if I really needed to get near full power they would probably fail anyhow, but with 104db and 90db speakers that's not going to happen.

I'm getting some of Leo's power supplies when he gets more in stock and also looking forward to maybe trying the linear ps route!
Interesting to find out which PSU gives the better sound. His SMPS or a good linear supply?

Leo himself is just releasing a linear PSU version of his Ultra amp. He sent me a picture, I'm not sure if it's for sale yet. He calls it a special edition for those 'nostalgic' for a linear supply.

I've just taken delivery of my Starkrimsons which I intend to put into mono blocks using linear supplies. Just waiting on the transformers from Tiger Toroid before I can start the build.

The solution of putting diodes in front of the power rails sounds a pretty crap one to me although I doubt if they would fail. 5A per side is equivalent to a lot of watts of output. A better solution would be modify the Hypex supply to lower the output voltage. Hypex sells the same supply with different output voltages so I doubt changing the voltages would be that hard to achieve.
 
A shameless plug for the benefit of anyone who might be considering trying one of the excellent Orchard amps - this one is fully built with the cap upgrade to the power supply 🙂

 
Interesting to find out which PSU gives the better sound. His SMPS or a good linear supply?

Leo himself is just releasing a linear PSU version of his Ultra amp. He sent me a picture, I'm not sure if it's for sale yet. He calls it a special edition for those 'nostalgic' for a linear supply.

I've just taken delivery of my Starkrimsons which I intend to put into mono blocks using linear supplies. Just waiting on the transformers from Tiger Toroid before I can start the build.

The solution of putting diodes in front of the power rails sounds a pretty crap one to me although I doubt if they would fail. 5A per side is equivalent to a lot of watts of output. A better solution would be modify the Hypex supply to lower the output voltage. Hypex sells the same supply with different output voltages so I doubt changing the voltages would be that hard to achieve.
I'm interested too in whether a linear supply would sound better and of course it would depend on the tx and capacitance among other variables. In general tho given the high frequency switching of a class d amp SMPS is a good choice. Rememeber re diodes that means 5 amp total current flow so circa 250 watts. More than I'll ever need but I'm not everyone!
 


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