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Progression from Elicit R for difficult speakers.

Sibbers

Sibbers

Earthling
Every now and then I peruse the internet for what's being sold and do a bit of reading to see if I can understand what's a bargain and why etc. Previous to my current amp I had an Arcam A85 and then a Cambridge Audio 840A, and initially the Arcam drove some little Quad 11Ls (IIRC) and then I found some Dynaudio Contour S1.4s... They were a good price and I loved any Dynaudios I'd heard before.

I'm sure this is a familiar story, but my speakers didn't sound that great (better than the Quads), I presumed it was my room or it was why the speakers got shifted, but then a chap at work offered me the Cambridge Audio amp for £270 and suddenly I had great imaging and a few other clichéd adjectives available to draw from when describing the upgrade I experienced. Things were great, as long as I gave the speakers plenty of room or the bass would be a bit heavy/dark/dominating and most of all flabby. I didn't mind pulling them out too much, but the speakers still didn't sound like they were worth the cash and the WAF was more significant now that by this time I had gotten married.

So I ended up looking at the systems that other people who had these speakers had. They had the kind of decks my old man had - generally LP12's or better, along with amplifiers that when I searched out I would discover cost way more than the speakers and the accompanying google ads would try and sell me things like magical pebbles, expensive cables and other things that scare a sceptic off a mile away. I found it hard to believe an amp was really ever worth £1000+ as all it did was one (or two) jobs... increase signal strength and switch. I get how mosfets work and I can see how that introduces noise, but I never bought into the power supply foo. Actually I did, but it took a while. I bought a Rega Elicit-R in the hope that it was a 'high current' amp, it was an ebay bargain (debatable, it cost me over a grand) and I didn't expect to keep it.... since then everyone acknowledges the sound that's produced, particularly the bass and everyone wants to know what speakers I have. The wife and I know the speakers are good, but really its the amp. Oh and I can leave the speakers anywhere too now - they don't hate the wall anymore.

So now that I'm convinced, and I wish it didn't take this long but while I've been interested for a long time I don't many people willing to spend big chinks of cash on their gear and I've been mostly a bit skint, I'd really like to know where the next logical step is. I'm still way off the amps most people who own my speakers will use, so is it likely that there are better suited amps and if so what would do the job?

I love the Rega sound I'm sure the Osiris would be my first utopian choice, but even a bargain costs an arm and a leg and in truth I haven't heard what everything else sounds like, I'm just really impressed with the Elicit-R. So how do you guys do it? Do you just buy and sell until you've heard enough that you feel good about what you've heard or something else? Would love to hear suggestions for a stereo amp that has a remote and would drive these speakers without colouring things or putting me in debt. I'd say I'd be willing to spend 1 to 2k, but I just don't know where to start.

If you've read this far, frankly I'm amazed. Thanks :)
 
I listened to some superb speakers in several rooms with the elicit r at the bristol show.I was rather struck how marvellous it sounded. If it was myself I would be upgrading speakers and finding ones that suit the elicit.
I heard it with tannoy and dali bit there are many wonderful speakers you could try
There is a very nice pair of zu omen on hififor sale and there was a lovely pair of heco statements recently
Both would sound stunning with your rega at a reasonable price
 
Dang. I wasn't expecting that. If I'm honest though, I don't think the speakers are the weakest part of my system. I might test some other speakers I have to see what happens, but i guess what I want to know is, are they being sufficiently driven and if not then what would they sound like if they were? Maybe I'm chasing rainbows but the improvement with the rega amp was really quite unexpected and it doesn't double up current as impedance drops so I'm suspicious what else might.

Perhaps I am hearing them at their potential. It is pretty incredible sounding and I'm definitely happy. But I'm also curious, as I was also fairly happy with the Cambridge Audio amp before it. The resolution of these speakers has been pretty close to magical on any amp causing me to giggle when I first heard trentemoller - last resort. It's just that now there is bass.

I'll take a look at your suggestions, cheers for getting me started :)
 
S1.4 is a very power hungry speaker. I doubt most integrated amps would do it justice, even Rega/Naim ones (Osiris -excepted).
 
Source is an MDAC/SBT with lossless audio mostly. I am indeed very happy but I'm also aware that most s1.4 owners feed it with bigger amps than I have, it's just that the elicit r is not that well known yet as its still quite new, so I wonder if I'm missing anything. What if they deserve more? Similarly, maybe this is as good as they get and I can stop wondering. :)

I think that if I were to change speakers I'd probably go after Dynaudio confidence speakers too, so would probably end up with the same predicament. Unless I threw the whole lot in and went active, but I know even less about that topic.

I think gx502 is correct though so I'd love to hear suggestions about options especially if it meant to could exchange my current amp for something that is more suited without shelling out too much.
 
I had Dynaudio Contour 1.1's with a Nap250 and loved them. The sales manager for Dynaudio used to run Naim amps.

With your system, you don't need a preamp if you are using SBT/MDAC only.

Therefore, my advice if you want to keep the Contours is to buy a power amp. Where do you live? I'm happy to demonstrate my spare which is a Avondale/Nap250 clone. I'm near Horsham. Otherwise maybe Dynavector which is potentially the next step up and will give you a variety of speaker choices. Also look at the heftier Meridian power amps and maybe Exposure.

I'd definately say borrow one if you can, then second hand also won't loose you money and will give you far more bang for buck.

Cheers

Jez
 
Cheers Jez, I'm in Twickenham just off the m3.

I tried bypassing the pre in the rega with the mdac and it didn't sound as defined, which I've been informed may be rf due to not having balanced inputs. The naim looks like a beauty, but appears to be similarly specified as the rega which makes me think that perhaps the rega is good enough. Or the naim still isn't quite enough.

If you do an image search for contour s1.4s it's amazing what amps you'll tend to see! Mostly, until this pursuit I had really not heard of any of them. doh!
 
In that case I'd try a pre-power otherwise I'm also inclined to suggest you change speakers for something that matches the Elicit R.
 
It all depends on if you want to explore other sounds , but if you love the Rega sound then the Osiris is definitely the way to go.

If you check the classifieds section there is one for sale for £2500. With the sale of your Elicit that would put it well within budget.
 
Thanks. Would love to hear about bang for buck suggestions in the right area, older eBay bargains or such.

I did notice the Osiris at £2500 but my budget of 1-2k is with the elicit r getting me some of that back. i guess I need to find a willing person to loan me something or look for bargains I can afford to test before then selling in my amp. Or I do something more radical, but I'd be heart broken if I found myself unable to match the system I have now.

I'll check out that Krell. Sounds good/expensive. :D
 
I saw one of those too, did a little research and the consensus is that PFM love them, naim users perceive 'fanboyism' and I came away thinking if there is a debate then TP is probably wonderful and the rest was details. But the rating of one for sale was in the 80w @ 8ohms region, and I think that's where my fear is born. Clearly watts are not equal - how am I meant to know before buying an amp whether or not it's powerful enough?

Sorry for labouring this point. :/
 
Sibbers,

I have read your posts and I am not exactly sure why you think the Elicit is underpowered and unable to drive the Dynaudios, according to their web site they appear to be 85db efficient and 4ohm loading so are a little inefficient but there should be no real problem in a moderate sized listening room. The Elicit is conservatively rated at 100wpc and under normal conditions should be able to deliver enough power to drive the contours to realistic levels.

Paul Darwin
Rega Research
 
Hey Paul,

Actually it's the journey that leads to the doubt. The Rega amp revealed a shocking(ly good) level of performance, but all I read is that I need an amp that doubles up current as resistance drops. Krell, Bryston etc in test situations and other owners of these speakers all seem to have followed this rule. I've also read that 4ohms is optimistic too.

Truth is, I just don't know. It sounds fantastic. I guess I'm looking for reassurance I'm all good (although last time I asked prior to buying the Rega I was told the Cambridge audio 840a was ample and I was paying for snake oil) so I've ended up with doubt which could be completely wrong, but it stems from the stellar performance and effect the elicit r had on my system. I just wonder if I'm still missing some potential.

Appreciate your comments, thanks!
 
I still think you should just upgrade the speakers and keep the rega . I was so impressed with the sound of it . recently I used a 395 pound audionote pre amp into my 13k speakers . it sounded pretty damm good . I always believe in getting the best speakers I can afford
 
Or "just" stick with what you have got since it sounds fantastic to your ears?

Maybe you've arrived already? :)
 
Thanks, I have given it some thought. The speakers weren't cheap but at 2.8k they're a just a dent in the cost of your bad boys. I do love this amp, but the dilemma is that I love these speakers too. They're unobtrusive, small, very full in range, image well and compared with else I have heard very neutral too.

I'm not familiar with much else in this price category though so as much as I can say mine sound great, I can't really say how they stack up with the completion but online reviews and comments of both amp and speakers are highly favourable from those that have used them. I haven't read about this particular combination being used anywhere else sadly.

Edit - krenzler, I think that might be the likely outcome but it's tempting to know about decent equipment before the for sale threads and eBay bargains pop up. I wish I could post a YouTube link for you guys to have a good listen. If only that worked. Those videos do actually exist ha! Thanks man!
 
Apologies, I did not mean to be terse and unhelpful. It is just that I have not been so active in this hobby of late, so I do not know anything about both the new and used market. (Just reading this forum sneakily during times of tedium in the day job.)

I personally really like the Contour S1.4, but I do think that it does need a really powerful amp to bring out the best in it. Its all relative (to your bank balance), but you will find that the S1.4 will keep giving more and more, with each amp upgrade, until you reach really crazy territory.

If you like the sound of the Rega amp, I would think that it will be much easier to change your speakers to a pair of Rega speakers (and sell the Contours). Provided of course you like the sound of Rega amp + speakers.

Being familiar with the S1.4's I know you have not really heard them, until you partner them with a good power amp.

Alternatively, if you love the S1.4's look for 2nd hand power amps, or perhaps a Karan integrated.
 
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