Previously happy LP12 owners who moved on.....

[Mr Pig]

I think the last LP12 sound that everyone new was the black liner bearing with any arm combination.
It had that classic LP12 sound.

Yes, I think there is something in this.

Around that time I think Linn started moving away from what you might consider the classic LP12 sound. The Lingo 1 and Cirkus introduced a cleaner, less airy sound. You were gaining something but losing something as well. I got the Cirkus just after it came out and disliked it enough that I removed it and went back to a pre-Cirkus.

I have two decks and one has a Cirkus and one is pre-Cirkus. They are different but I like both. The Cirkus starts to make sense once the rest of the deck is tightened up a bit. The bottom line is that an LP12 of any vintage should sound very musical and enjoyable but context is everything. The deck can sound wrong, even horrible, as easily as it can sound good.

 

[Mr Pig]

Next time you are in Hangzhou Mr Pig, you are cordially invited for a listen...

Thank you. I'll pop in the next time I'm buying noodles ;0)

 

[Mr Pig]

The LP12 clearly stumbled on something which is giving some attack and pump to the rhythm of the playback, and however that occurs there it is. It’s loved by many.

I think your post is exactly right, I agree with all of it.

Removing colouration and hearing only what's on the record is based on two premises, both of which are questionable. Firstly that we even know what the original sound was and that all of it was caught on the record.

If you think about it, the idea of zero colouration is pretty stupid. If you could remove all colouration that would include all room reflections and if you've ever heard a system which does go overboard on the damping they invariably sound shite. Life is coloured, as John Peel used to say.

 

[Woodface]

It what you like the sound of. Very simple.

 

[Jazzer]

I have a 1988 black bearing LP12, the one before the cirkus, with an Ittok LV11.
I love the sound of it but I have never liked the springs.
I have tried several times but still don’t have a bounce that compares with the one that my neighbour had on his when he lived next door a few years ago.
His deck was set up by a Linn professional and he himself was a Linn dealer.
His Deck was also several rungs up the so called hierarchy ladder than mine.
For all that, mine sounded better to his ears and to mine.

Following a recent house move, I set up my Axis in a garage system, only to find that the top plate would not level.
It had been like it for a while but I assumed it just needed adjustment.
As I tightened the back suspension unit, i heard a crack and the whole of the back of the top plate lifted up.
The mounting plate under the top plate had shattered after 30 odd years.
So it was either sell for scrap or do away with the suspension altogether. (You see where this is going) lol.
I removed the remaining suspension parts and set the base onto four small stick on rubber feet.
I then found some tiny rubber stick on feet to support the top plate just clear of the plinth.
It simply lies there held by its own weight now.
It now looks low slung and somewhat more like a Linn Basik turntable.
Listening to it, I don’t feel as though it has lost anything at all and it will remain in use.
I also prefer the more solid feel when switching on as the switch doesn’t move slightly as it used to.
This has prompted me to order some of the RS silicon mushrooms to try in my Lp12.
I am hoping that the sound remains close to how it is but without the wobbly suspension, as has happened with my Axis.
Fingers crossed. lol.

 

[ip999nine]

yes agree, It what you like the sound of.

 

[Mr Pig]

I have tried several times but still don’t have a bounce that compares with the one that my neighbour had on his when he lived next door a few years ago. His deck was set up by a Linn professional and he himself was a Linn dealer.

Strange. It's not that hard to do. Can be time consuming but if it just won't come right it suggests the deck wasn't built properly in the first place. If the hanger bolts aren't straight you're going to struggle. The Ittok is also a heavy arm so it's hard to get the deck to bounce as nicely as it can with a lighter arm.

It matters but the bounce is not as critical as the internet might suggest. I bet your neighbors deck sounded worse because he was a Linn dealer! Back in the day many Linn dealers used to crank the hell out of very nut and bolt on the thing and they sounded bad. It gives them a harder, more edgy sound which doesn't flow the way it should.

 

[Isobarik]

My next project is to replace the white bearing with the black. Seems the best next step. I've already replaced the Valhalla with a Zeus. Will I hear a difference? I did when I replaced the Valhalla.

 

[Mr Pig]

My next project is to replace the white bearing with the black. Seems the best next step. I've already replaced the Valhalla with a Zeus.

These bearings are so old that it's no longer about which version you have but what sort of condition it's in. Pre-Cirkus bearings in particular come from a time when vinyl was all we had so most are worn. By the time of the Cirkus digital existed and a lot of LP12 were hardly getting use so good condition Cirkus bearings are easy to find.

Unless you know that the black liner bearing is mint, I wouldn't bother. The one with the least wear will sound better.

I've got about half a dozen really good bearing here just now, including a full Cirkus kit that's never been out of the box! Who does that? Buys a Cirkus then doesn't fit it?

 

[Isobarik]

These bearings are so old that it's no longer about which version you have but what sort of condition it's in. Pre-Cirkus bearings in particular come from a time when vinyl was all we had so most are worn. By the time of the Cirkus digital existed and a lot of LP12 were hardly getting use so good condition Cirkus bearings are easy to find.

Unless you know that the black liner bearing is mint, I wouldn't bother. The one with the least wear will sound better.

I've got about half a dozen really good bearing here just now, including a full Cirkus kit that's never been out of the box! Who does that? Buys a Cirkus then doesn't fit it?

It appears to be in good condition, it's been maintained pretty regularly and I can see no pitting on the bearing surface but with time it's obviously worn.

 

[Mr Pig]

It appears to be in good condition, it's been maintained pretty regularly and I can see no pitting on the bearing surface but with time it's obviously worn.

Check for rocking the the well and the dot on the end of the spindle. The tip of the spindle is the only part that touches the thrust plate so the wear spot on the spindle is what the bearing is running on.

The liners wear too so the spindle will rock. On a dry bearing there is a tiny gap for the oil but with oil in it the bearing should not move. They typically wear on the side towards the motor, belt pull.

Personally, I wouldn't bother swapping a good white liner for a black one. The difference is not huge.

 

[Isobarik]

Check for rocking the the well and the dot on the end of the spindle. The tip of the spindle is the only part that touches the thrust plate so the wear spot on the spindle is what the bearing is running on.

The liners wear too so the spindle will rock. On a dry bearing there is a tiny gap for the oil but with oil in it the bearing should not move. They typically wear on the side towards the motor, belt pull.

Personally, I wouldn't bother swapping a good white liner for a black one. The difference is not huge.

Thanks Colin,
I'll check on the points mentioned and I'll take your advice on changing the white liner. I did check the liner a few months ago and there was no rock. Perhaps I'm lucky? The deck runs very quietly, no noise at all.

 

[Mr Pig]

Thanks Colin,
I'll check on the points mentioned and I'll take your advice on changing the white liner. I did check the liner a few months ago and there was no rock. Perhaps I'm lucky? The deck runs very quietly, no noise at all.

If you look after them the bearing can last surprisingly well. If you never change the oil and use the deck a lot the bearing will destroy itself. I've seen some crackers.

 

[Jazzer]

Strange. It's not that hard to do. Can be time consuming but if it just won't come right it suggests the deck wasn't built properly in the first place. If the hanger bolts aren't straight you're going to struggle. The Ittok is also a heavy arm so it's hard to get the deck to bounce as nicely as it can with a lighter arm.

It matters but the bounce is not as critical as the internet might suggest. I bet your neighbors deck sounded worse because he was a Linn dealer! Back in the day many Linn dealers used to crank the hell out of very nut and bolt on the thing and they sounded bad. It gives them a harder, more edgy sound which doesn't flow the way it should.

Mine has a fairly pistonic bounce but a very short decay.
It always suggested that something was binding to me but I tried turning the springs umpteen times but could never improve it.
I got fed up in the end and left it as it has been for the lsat fifteen years.
i love the deck but not the suspension.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

I have a 1988 black bearing LP12, the one before the cirkus, with an Ittok LV11.
I love the sound of it but I have never liked the springs.
I have tried several times but still don’t have a bounce that compares with the one that my neighbour had on his when he lived next door a few years ago.
His deck was set up by a Linn professional and he himself was a Linn dealer.
His Deck was also several rungs up the so called hierarchy ladder than mine.
For all that, mine sounded better to his ears and to mine.

Following a recent house move, I set up my Axis in a garage system, only to find that the top plate would not level.
It had been like it for a while but I assumed it just needed adjustment.
As I tightened the back suspension unit, i heard a crack and the whole of the back of the top plate lifted up.
The mounting plate under the top plate had shattered after 30 odd years.
So it was either sell for scrap or do away with the suspension altogether. (You see where this is going) lol.
I removed the remaining suspension parts and set the base onto four small stick on rubber feet.
I then found some tiny rubber stick on feet to support the top plate just clear of the plinth.
It simply lies there held by its own weight now.
It now looks low slung and somewhat more like a Linn Basik turntable.
Listening to it, I don’t feel as though it has lost anything at all and it will remain in use.
I also prefer the more solid feel when switching on as the switch doesn’t move slightly as it used to.
This has prompted me to order some of the RS silicon mushrooms to try in my Lp12.
I am hoping that the sound remains close to how it is but without the wobbly suspension, as has happened with my Axis.
Fingers crossed. lol.

Our LP12 used to bounce like a good-un, perfectly vertical - no obstructions - and long decay. Truly, it sounded a treat!

But nothing prepared us for the impact of the mushrooms. Even before I had the mushies perfectly fettled, the sonic improvement was unmistakeable.

So, I’m really excited and looking forward to reading your findings about your springless LP12.

When you install the mushrooms, just make sure the large flat side gets the maximum contact with your sub-chassis.

Exciting times!

 

[Jazzer]

Our LP12 used to bounce like a good-un, perfectly vertical - no obstructions - and long decay. Truly, it sounded a treat!

But nothing prepared us for the impact of the mushrooms. Even before I had the mushies perfectly fettled, the sonic improvement was unmistakeable.

So, I’m really excited and looking forward to reading your findings about your springless LP12.

When you install the mushrooms, just make sure the large flat side gets the maximum contact with your sub-chassis.

Exciting times!

Thanks for that info.
I will bear it in mind but the mushrooms are not due to be delivered for a week or two and I’m not sure when I will get around to fitting them.
I don’t actually like working on turntables. TBH.
I am an electronics engineer and quite mechanically minded but it’s not my forte.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Thanks for that info.
I will bear it in mind but the mushrooms are not due to be delivered for a week or two and I’m not sure when I will get around to fitting them.
I don’t actually like working on turntables. TBH.
I am an electronics engineer and quite mechanically minded but it’s not my forte.

Occasionally, I can't sleep - so I take my turntable to pieces and give a good clean and once-over and have it back together for the next day.

(A bit like DOC MARTIN and his clocks... I know, I know. Sick puppy! )

Anyways, if you get stuck or have any questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[Jazzer]

Occasionally, I can't sleep - so I take my turntable to pieces and give a good clean and once-over and have it back together for the next day.

(A bit like DOC MARTIN and his clocks... sick puppy! )

Anyways, if you get stuck or have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Thanks….

 

[Si74]

About 45 years ago after extensive listening to both in Hi-Fi Corner, I bought an original Systemdek in preference to the LP 12.
At the same time they had an Oracle/ FR 64S/Koetsu that blew my mind but way out of my reach pricewise.
The Systemdek/Mission 774 with cartridges ranging for cheap as chips to way dearer than the deck and arm, kept me happy for 18 years.
Foolishly sold it when I won a Logic DM 101 in a competition.
Replaced this with a knackered Xerxes which cost 100 quid, which once sorted (by myself), went thru rather a few arms/cartridges.
Redundancy forced me into buying/selling, servicing and setting up decks.
Of the numerous Linns that have passed through, only notable ones were;
An ancient red button/SME one caused consternation at the dinner table when I went and put on a cd
A seriously bodged(by a dealer) Pink Link/pu 2/Grado Wood was a revelation once sorted
One I built using carbon fibre for the toplate and sub chassis powered by a D.I.Y. Geddon
As an early customer for Arthur's full Vectored kit which was upgraded for free every time he
improved bits, was the only 'Linn' I've ever regretted selling.
Not saying Linns are not enjoyable but I've always found other decks more to my liking.
Funked deck with Zeta/ZYX was astonishing and only went due to a financial hiccup.
Current Oracle/Kuzma Ref./Koetsu keeps me happy but a Kuzma Stogi S/Benz Glider set up
on the Oracle to transfer to a customers LP 12 was an amazing combo.
Ever finish fooling with cars, might actually build a few more D.I.Y. Lencos again.
Last batch I built finished up in Redcar, France, Singapore and OZ
Have enough parts to build 3 and finish one that doesn't look Heath Robinsonish?,
will stick the Well Tempered Arm on it. A bizarre thing I bought 20 odd years ago for $60
and put in the cupboard as a joke. Boy was I wrong!

 

[Mr Pig]

Not saying Linns are not enjoyable but I've always found other decks more to my liking.

I've always felt that LP12s are often held back by the arms. Linn arms are ok but other people make better ones. Unfortunately a lot of sheeps have this idea that the LP12 doesn't sound right unless it has a Linn arm on it. I see LP12 with Basik arms selling for over a grand, which is total stupidity.