Previously happy LP12 owners who moved on.....

[Mike Reed]

My 301/401 Idlers are approaching 60 years old and require the old drop of oil and require none of the vodoo associated with the sprung chassis setup or worries of a knackered elastic band spinning the platter. Just saying......

I certainly wouldn't question the longevity of 301s/401s (or Goldrings). I loved my 401 which took me through my student days in 1970; oddly, not a lot of belt-drives around then. Belt drives don't have to be sprung, y'know, but yes, suspended decks have their own upkeep prob's. Now, mass decks- different kettle of fish and drive belts lasted a long long time on my Xerxes and Orbe. Not sure about my flat LP12 belt (still got a spare somewhere, now 35+ y.o.)

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Look at how much messing about you've had to do just to get two records sounding different. A stock Lenco GL75 costing <£150 could have done this for you.

You might be right, @Rexton .

I can't comment, because in my decades of audio wanderings in New Zealand, I never stumbled upon a LENCO turntable. Not once!

In fact, I still don't know anyone who owns a LENCO.

So, I've never heard a LENCO turntable.

I also don't think LENCOs are still being made, so I feel it is bit harder to become a LENCO owner.

I'm sure the availability of LENCO might be different elsewhere.

One thing I should say too: That "messing about" with our beloved LP12 that you mentioned above... has been one of the great pleasures of my audiophile existence.

I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Interesting; not the first time I've read this and I wonder why. The constant accuracy (and maybe torque compared to belt drive) may have sth in this, though not sure why.

I strongly suspect that the (alleged) soul-less-ness of direct drive turntables - reported by many listeners - has something to do with the very high torque, Mike.

In fact, many TECHNICS reviewers note that reducing the torque - on those newer models that have the option - dramatically improves the sound quality.

Not a fact. Just my opinion.

 

[Rexton]

I certainly wouldn't question the longevity of 301s/401s (or Goldrings). I loved my 401 which took me through my student days in 1970; oddly, not a lot of belt-drives around then. Belt drives don't have to be sprung, y'know, but yes, suspended decks have their own upkeep prob's. Now, mass decks- different kettle of fish and drive belts lasted a long long time on my Xerxes and Orbe. Not sure about my flat LP12 belt (still got a spare somewhere, now 35+ y.o.

Fair play! Nice to see someone able to take a bit of joshing. I've owned a LP!2 but it's not the best belt driven system out there. The Humble heybrook TT2 is far superior with respects to setup. I own a very early TT2 with the original belt from 35+ years ago and its still spins at +/- 0.1-2 rpm fast which according to thge designer of the deck is as it should be. I also own the TD160 super which also has similar stats. Both different decks and both able to translate 2 different records without sounding the same (sorry couldn't resist)

 

[Rexton]

I strongly suspect that the (alleged) soul-less-ness of direct drive turntables - reported by many listeners - has something to do with the very high torque, Mike.

In fact, many TECHNICS reviewers note that reducing the torque - on those newer models that have the option - dramatically improves the sound quality.

Not a fact. Just my opinion.

Can you provide references ?

 

[Rexton]

You might be right, @Rexton .

I can't comment, because in my decades of audio wanderings in New Zealand, I never stumbled upon a LENCO turntable. Not once!

In fact, I still don't know anyone who owns a LENCO.

So, I've never heard a LENCO turntable.

I also don't think LENCOs are still being made, so I feel it is bit harder to become a LENCO owner.

I'm sure the availability of LENCO might be different elsewhere.

One thing I should say too: That "messing about" with our beloved LP12 that you mentioned above... has been one of the great pleasures of my audiophile existence.

I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

Well that's easily explained. Lenco is a swiss company and your in China. Go figure! I would suspect your grew up in NZ? Try visiting the Lenco Heaven website you might see just who far these humble little decks can be pushed. Far more cutsomisation than your LP!2 and at far less cost. I totally get the "messing about" aspect of the Linn, the Lenco is exactly the same but at a peanuts level of expenditure.

 

[allthingsanalog]

@allthingsanalog what made you go back?!

I have a work colleague coming round next week who is quite a Hifi enthusiast. He used to own an LP12 many years ago and now owns a lower end Acoustic Signature (from Elite Audio). He too got fed up with the Linn merry go round but will be interesting to see what he thinks all these years on

I actually forgot to put on the list an SL1200G as well!

Simply put, I found no other deck engrossed me into the music like a Sondek. Even taking a beat up lp, noisy and covered in scratches, the LP12 just somehow pushes all that out of the way and just concentrates on the music and gets my foot tapping.

I remember hearing an LP12 when I was about 10 years old and being absolutely blown away compared to a Rega Planner 3. Even a decade later it still sounded good. Obviously it was a time when kids weren't only interested in getting a phone above all else so that's probably when the interest in hifi really began so it's partly sentimental as well. I certainly wouldn't be without it.

If I had to sell everything else I'd keep the Linn and put it with a cheap amp and speakers.

It's not just Linn that has the upgraditis, a friend of mine was clueless about the Technics mods asked me “what mods can you do to an SL1200 other than a cartridge?, I replied, “I’ll make you a list, it will be a long one”.

I'll be interested what your friend thinks.

 

[Darren L]

I don't find Steely Dan interesting on any level. It's so boring I heard vets use it to put dogs to sleep.

I don't think I've ever heard any Steely Dan, not that I'm aware of anyway.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

I don't think I've ever heard any Steely Dan, not that I'm aware of anyway.

See if you can take a listen to these two albums. Some of their best IMHO... but YMMV.

STEELY DAN | GAUCHO (1979)

DONALD FAGEN | THE NIGHTFLY (1982)

[Note: THE NIGHTFLY is the solo debut album by STEELY DAN lead singer DONALD FAGEN, so not strictly a STEELY DAN album, but still very close to their core sound, if slightly more POP-oriented on a few tracks...]

 

[Darren L]

I'll certainly have a listen and see what I think, ta

 

[windhoek]

While Steely Dan/Donald Fagen have made some great music, which happens to sound damn good on top of everything else, Michael Franks is where it's at, or at least it's where Steely Dan could have been at if they'd just tried a bit harder... or took things a little easier, I'm not sure which. Franks played with some of the same musicians and his song craft is on another level. It just so happens I listened to One Bad Habit last night and once again, I was hooked from start to finish.

 

[Brown Bottle]

I'll certainly have a listen and see what I think, ta

Add Pretzel Logic to the list Darren, side 1 in particular is great. I’m not a massive Dan fan but I return to this album a lot.

Cheers BB

 

[Jazzer]

To my ears and in our system, this is very true of the earlier iterations of the LP12 that we have owned.

Certainly, this was very true of our original LINN Sondek LP12 configuration:
LINN Valhalla AC.
LINN Pre-Cirkus Bearing.
LINN Pressed-steel Sub-chassis.
LINN Ittok LVII tonearm.
LINN Springs Suspension.
LINN Trampolinn Spongey Feet.

Whilst this deck sounded very nice - IMHO, much better that our previous REGA PLANER 3 / RB300 combo - every LP sounded very much the same!

But easily the most painful aspect of this early LP12 deck, was trying to achieve a rock-solid platter speed!

This is simply NOT the case with our (barely the) same deck - more than two decades later - configured with:

ORIGIN LIVE (hot-rodded) Advanced DC motor and 160W/24V LHY Linear Power Supply;
LINN Karousel Bearing.
STACK AUDIO ALTO Sub-chassis.
WAND PLUS 9.5" Tonearm and Armboard.
AUDIOSILENTE Silicone Mushrooms Suspension.
BLACK DIAMOND Racing Cones Threaded-to-Plinth Feet.

This is an entirely different beast!

Yes, the beautiful, enveloping sound of the LP12 remains, but now sounds so much less constrained, more open and more balanced. Actually, it sounds absolutely unflappable now!

Importantly - now - no two albums sound the same and the differences between LP and Digital are simply staggering. Non-audiophile visitors to our home are simply shocked in this regard.

And all this can now be achieved with some fairly humble cartridges - that sounded very bloody average on the same lower-spec deck!

That is to say, that the differences between each and every different (associated) component are now brutally revealed on our LP12. This includes different:
Motor belts.
Turntable supports.
Cartridges and cartridge VTF/VTA settings.
Phono-stages, phono-stage settings and cables.
Etc., etc....

As others have commented: With the very wide variety of affordable availability of third-party LP12 components, there are now so many variations of configuration of the indefatigable old fruit box, that I don't believe any blanket descriptions can be universally applied.

But the thing that amazes me most about our LP12, is how cheaply we have been able to get to this lofty level of performance, compared with the moonbeams cost of brand-new, all-LINN, LINN Sondek LP12s of similar specification - and their new-to-market alternatives.

All of that said, it certainly is a great time to be an LP12 owner!


PS: I too LOVE Steely Dan, but still consider THE NIGHTFLY to be the greatest album they (n)ever made...

Cheap is relative lol …..
Almost every one of your modifications would appproach or exceed the entire cost of my deck, over 19 years.
The only one that I might consider is the mushrooms but I’m still not convinced that it’s worth pulling apart my perfectly working turntable to go ‘solid‘, which it basically would be.

I don’t hear pitch instability, neither did any of the contemporary reviews that i have read even mention it.
LP12s were usually praised for their speed and pitch stability.

I do agree that there is a ‘sound’ to the deck.
In the case of mine, it is a clarity and speed of transient attack, coupled with powerful dynamics, which show up on many records that I play.
All desirable traits when listening to blues or rock or pop or folk.
Neither CD or direct drives have been able to sound better to me on my system or in most of the others that I have listened to.

The only time I have thought mine was lacking a little was when I heard a Garrard 301 large plinth into a huge valve array driving horns. Great dynamics…
Totally impractical for me and I couldn’t afford it even if I wanted it. Lol
The huge plinth wouldnt do it for me, no matter how good it sounded.

 

[matteo.renesto]

I strongly suspect that the (alleged) soul-less-ness of direct drive turntables - reported by many listeners - has something to do with the very high torque, Mike.

In fact, many TECHNICS reviewers note that reducing the torque - on those newer models that have the option - dramatically improves the sound quality.

Not a fact. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the suggestion. There are 3 torque options (according to the GR2 manual, the factory setting is [3]: highest).

And what about the brake speed? There are 5 time options (according again to the GR2 manual, the factory setting is [5]: fastest).

M.

 

[MVV]

My Dad had a great system Goldring GL99/SME 3009. Being the late 70s he had it mounted in a lidded cabinet in his ‘Ladderax‘. Unsurprisingly it amplified the rumble but if you ignored that it sounded really great. Looking back it was a really great system JVC amp and Ditton 44s.
Being an engineer he could have sorted all the faults easily by mounting it in a solid plinth and having some open frame stands made for the speaker.
But then, why do that when you could sit on the floor with a whiskey, when the family were in bed and listen to Sibelius?

 

[MVV]

In my Linn/Naim/Briks years after Dad died, my mum would come round, I’d play her it and she’d say “lovely dear” but she wasn’t really impressed.

 

[SteveG]

I've just stuck a record on my ancient LP12 (which isn't far off being as old as me) and am enjoying it as much as ever!

I am in the market for an additional turntable at the moment though, so perhaps should get round to trying something other than a belt drive deck (all my turntables are either Linn, Rega or Project belt drive ones).

 

[Woodface]

I don't think I've ever heard any Steely Dan, not that I'm aware of anyway.

You definitely will have heard ‘Ricky don’t lose that number’

 

[Woodface]

What really makes me laugh is that some people actually believe that LP12 owners see their deck as the ‘best in the world’. It’s simply that we find a TT & just enjoy it. I don’t feel the need to pour scorn on other peoples choices; apart from Steely Dan haters obvs.

It’s no great achievement to simply buy another deck if I feel the need. I could easily have spent more money on my LP12 but I’ve chosen not to. I’ve just dropped a large sum on a new bike instead.

 

[SteveG]

What really makes me laugh is that some people actually believe that LP12 owners see their deck as the ‘best in the world’. It’s simply that we find a TT & just enjoy it. I don’t feel the need to pour scorn on other peoples choices; apart from Steely Dan haters obvs.

It’s no great achievement to simply buy another deck if I feel the need. I could easily have spent more money on my LP12 but I’ve chosen not to. I’ve just dropped a large sum on a new bike instead.

My LP12 cost me the princely sum of £250 and I can't imagine there are many better decks at that price. There are of course no doubt many better decks, but I like the sound from my LP12 and don't feel any need to change it. It's been the one constant in my main system for many, many years now despite being by a long way the cheapest component.

I do also enjoy the other turntables I have, although that's still my favourite deck.