Huge Steely Dan fan but have to acknowledge some of the criticisms. It's music for the head and doesn't give an immediate emotional hit. It's a long term relationship with their music for me whereas for some it will be an instant turn off so I get that. Also Donald's voice is very marmite and I imagine it's what Woody Allen might sound like if he sang! They are great word-smiths though and the role call of great session musicians that have collaborated with them is unsurpassed so either they pay damn well or else they have something that many appreciate. Sad Walter died - I really enjoyed his guitar work.
Previously happy LP12 owners who moved on.....
- Thread starter ex brickie
- Start date
I very nearly spat coffee over my golden retriever when I read this. The LP!2 is at best ok, a technics 1200 will easily when fettled show a LP!2 a clean pair of heels and at very little cost, compared to the loss of a testicle to raise the cash for L!nn upgrades. I used to own a LP!2 and then saw sense.
MVV
pfm Member
Yeah, I noticed that too. ’ Silly suggestions’, well I guess 10ks worth of LP12 will be on par or better. I’m not sure a 20k LP12 could match a Techy G. Me it will be a Denon, Techy or a vintage idler next. The GTa sounds great but string and gloop and getting older just seems stressful. What if mi teeth fell in the gloop pot? Eh, answer me that!
Yes, personal preference is indeed a very powerful driver. The LP!2 is an emotive subject and to some there will never be a better deck, but hey, all decks have good and bad points. It's just the sheer blindness of some owners that their will never be anything better, when clearly decks costing far far less sound and perform far beyond the capabilities of the LP!2. I could easily buy a 30+ year old example of a 1200 with world class wow/flutter, speed stability capabilities compared to a LP!2 which needs God knows how many upgrades at hernia inducing costs. I'd take a modded Lenco L75 over the LP!2 any day.
per-Sony-fied
Me in another jacket
I think the more you spend & with technology & understanding improving TT's come closer to the sound of digital. I mean many a piece of vinyl these days has some part of digitizing involved before it's put to lacquer & now there are many digital phono stages around in a bid to keep noise down, dynamics up & produce very accurate RIAA curves. The TT is slowly turning digital. Despite all this I like to play with other sources & listen to the differences they attract & the enjoyment that comes from it. I generally find, all said & done digital wins the game. So for me if a TT sounds broadly similar I reckon that's a good crack.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
My PT turntable sounds better than CD ime. If it didn't I would have given up on it long ago.
The point being it is more rewarding to listen to.
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I love mine as it is but it has set me back less than £800 pounds excluding cartridges and has given me great pleasure for almost 20 years now.
I don’t believe that Linns so called upgrade path is good value for money or even necessarily an upgrade.
Having listened to higher spec decks than mine, I just like the way that it plays my music.
It is a very personal choice.
If one day I wanted to try to upgrade or just try something different, it would be an idler. Preferably one with a small footprint, Like a TD124. I have an aversion to those huge plinth things whatever drive system they use.
Dierct drive doesn’t interest me, I have one here and have heard quite a few.
I actually like the looks of the Technics type decks but they all sound like CD to me.
A bit bland and soul less.
It’s all personal choice and budget.
You mean it requires a level of intelligence to appreciate it... I get that.
Well I prefer emotion in my music to intellect.
Not what I said, but never mind.Well I prefer emotion in my music to intellect.
ex brickie
pfm Member
Come on folks - back on track please! 
I don't find Steely Dan interesting on any level. It's so boring I heard vets use it to put dogs to sleep.Come on folks - back on track please!
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
To my ears and in our system, this is very true of the earlier iterations of the LP12 that we have owned.
Certainly, this was very true of our original LINN Sondek LP12 configuration:
LINN Valhalla AC.
LINN Pre-Cirkus Bearing.
LINN Pressed-steel Sub-chassis.
LINN Ittok LVII tonearm.
LINN Springs Suspension.
LINN Trampolinn Spongey Feet.
Whilst this deck sounded very nice - IMHO, much better that our previous REGA PLANER 3 / RB300 combo - every LP sounded very much the same!
But easily the most painful aspect of this early LP12 deck, was trying to achieve a rock-solid platter speed!
This is simply NOT the case with our (barely the) same deck - more than two decades later - configured with:
ORIGIN LIVE (hot-rodded) Advanced DC motor and 160W/24V LHY Linear Power Supply;
LINN Karousel Bearing.
STACK AUDIO ALTO Sub-chassis.
WAND PLUS 9.5" Tonearm and Armboard.
AUDIOSILENTE Silicone Mushrooms Suspension.
BLACK DIAMOND Racing Cones Threaded-to-Plinth Feet.
This is an entirely different beast!
Yes, the beautiful, enveloping sound of the LP12 remains, but now sounds so much less constrained, more open and more balanced. Actually, it sounds absolutely unflappable now!
Importantly - now - no two albums sound the same and the differences between LP and Digital are simply staggering. Non-audiophile visitors to our home are simply shocked in this regard.
And all this can now be achieved with some fairly humble cartridges - that sounded very bloody average on the same lower-spec deck!
That is to say, that the differences between each and every different (associated) component are now brutally revealed on our LP12. This includes different:
Motor belts.
Turntable supports.
Cartridges and cartridge VTF/VTA settings.
Phono-stages, phono-stage settings and cables.
Etc., etc....
As others have commented: With the very wide variety of affordable availability of third-party LP12 components, there are now so many variations of configuration of the indefatigable old fruit box, that I don't believe any blanket descriptions can be universally applied.
But the thing that amazes me most about our LP12, is how cheaply we have been able to get to this lofty level of performance, compared with the moonbeams cost of brand-new, all-LINN, LINN Sondek LP12s of similar specification - and their new-to-market alternatives.
All of that said, it certainly is a great time to be an LP12 owner!
PS: I too LOVE Steely Dan, but still consider THE NIGHTFLY to be the greatest album they (n)ever made...
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Mike Reed
pfm Member
Although I've had Goldrings and 401, I've always been of the opinion that the small rubber wheel, very subject to wear and driving the inside of a platter, to be a crude design. Belt drive, where >2/3 of the platter is driven , seems a more evenly executed design. All that linkage in an idler drive; all subject to frequent maintenance and wear.
Look at how much messing about you've had to do just to get two records sounding different. A stock Lenco GL75 costing <£150 could have done this for you.To my ears and in our system, this is very true of the earlier iterations of the LP12 that we have owned.
Certainly, this was very true of our original LINN Sondek LP12 configuration:
LINN Valhalla AC.
LINN Pre-Cirkus Bearing.
LINN Pressed-steel Sub-chassis.
LINN Ittok LVII tonearm.
LINN Springs Suspension.
LINN Trampolinn Spongey Feet.
Whilst this deck sounded very nice - IMHO, much better that our previous REGA PLANER 3 / RB300 combo - but every LP sounded very much the same!
But easily the most painful aspect of this early LP12 deck, was trying to achieve a rock-solid platter speed!
This is simply NOT the case with our (barely the) same decade more than two decades later, configured with:
ORIGIN LIVE (hot-rodded) Advanced DC motor and 160W/24V LHY Linear Power Supply;
LINN Karousel Bearing.
STACK AUDIO ALTO Sub-chassis.
WAND PLUS 9.5" Tonearm and Armboard.
AUDIOSILENTE Silicone Mushrooms Suspension.
BLACK DIAMOND Racing Cones Threaded-to-Plinth Feet.
This is an entirely different beast!
Yes, the beautiful, enveloping sound of the LP12 remains, but now sounds so much less constrained and shut-in.
Importantly - now - no two albums sound the same and the differences between LP and Digital are simply staggering. Non-audiophile visitors to our home are simply shocked in this regard.
And all this can now be achieved with some fairly humble cartridges - that sounded very bloody average on the sale lower-spec deck!
That is to say, that the differences between each and every different (associated) component are now brutally revealed on our LP12. This includes different:
Motor belts.
Turntable supports.
Cartridges and cartridge VTF/VTA settings.
Phono-stages, phono-stage settings and cables.
Etc., etc....
As others have commented: With the very wide variety of affordable availability of third-party LP12 components, there are now so many variations of configuration of the indefatigable old fruit box, that I don't believe any blanket descriptions can be universally applied.
But the thing that amazes me most about our LP12, is how cheaply we have been able to get to this lofty level of performance, compared with the moonbeams cost of brand-new, all-LINN, LINN Sondek LP12s of similar specification - and their new-to-market alternatives.
All of that said, it certainly is a great time to be an LP12 owner!
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Interesting; not the first time I've read this and I wonder why. The constant accuracy (and maybe torque compared to belt drive) may have sth in this, though not sure why.
Complete pish! My 301/401 Idlers are approaching 60 years old and require the old drop of oil and require none of the vodoo associated with the sprung chassis setup or worries of a knackered elastic band spinning the platter. Just saying......
Mike Reed
pfm Member
As long as you change the arm; in which case why not simply get the 99 or its arm-less predecessor. I had both. Mind you, getting the platter off an idler drive isn't a walk in the park.