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Preamplifier necessity?

T

TLS

pfm Member
I was reading about Naim preamp hierarchy in an attemp to understand what makes a better preamplifier. The number of power rails, the 0v arrangements, the quality of the power feed, the main PCB isolation and suspension, quality of resistors and caps etc. etc. all contribute to make a better buffer between sources and amplifiers. All this looks very complex and certainly took years and years of trial and error before reaching high sound quality levels.

With today's dac/preamps and streamers that are connected directly to a power amp it seems the analog stage after the d/a conversion is not so important anymore. Why is this and what have changed?
 
Some of the story has to be that nowadays most people don't need a phono input. So there's rarely, if ever, any actual need for a pre-amp to amplify. Most DACs with a line level output produce at least enough signal to drive most amps to their rated output. So it's a lot simpler to put a volume control - which in practice will nearly always attenuate - in with the DAC. This can even be a digital volume control - some DAC chips themselves have such a thing. And who needs analogue inputs? And tape monitoring is a thing of the past too!

Even Naim have just introduced a streamer/DAC/pre - the NAC 272, and have had a DAC/pre for a while, the DAC-V1.
 
Some of those old preamps were just nice boxes of air with switches on the front.

If your sources have sufficient volume control all you need is a switch box, although many preamps have additional functions. eg DAC, Phono amp, DSP, Balanced/phono compatibility, remote, Room Correction, input balance.

We had one system which used AEX to power amp and played using the phone as a remote, very simple.
 
Helmut said:
You need a pre-amp for colouration :D
Click to expand...

You also need an active pre for the ultimate in dynamics and ultimate control / bass slam at all volumes. :)

Considering my Krell KRC-3 for example, it has 0.009% THD, 20Hz to 20kHz, so there's more than colouration to consider...
 
I’m very curious to try a mid-higher end DAC / pre such a s the Benchmark DAC2, NAD M51, Young DSD, W4S and so on in to my actives. I really like the idea but have always found an active pre-amp to be an important component but haven’t tried one of these nearer breed which is such an expanding market yet. I know the latest incarnation of the Jolida DAC has volume and of course a valve stage but I’d like to try a DAC Pre that has a valve in the pre stage only.
 
I haven't used a preamp for at least a decade.... they are totally superfluous now that sources have enough output to drive a power amp direct... other than to act as a source of rose tinted distortion in some cases... and some folks like that of course!
I of course disagree with the bass slam and dynamics bit that some reckon a preamp is needed for!
 
Sonically a preamp should be transparent, have a low output impedance and provide attenuation and source selection,
Keith.
 
darrenyeats said:
IMO it's hard to find a DAC with XLR output with a low output level and low output impedance. More detail here:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2517099&postcount=19
Yomanze, Krell KRC-3 - 15 ohms output impedance which is good.

Removing the preamp stage is desirable in principle (I think it increases transparency) but that doesn't necessarily mean everything will be better without a preamp.
Click to expand...

My Weiss DAC204 has 44Ohm XLR with these selectable outputs:-

8.15Vrms +20.44 dBu with a 0 dBFS sinewave input
4.15Vrms +14.57 dBu with a 0 dBFS sinewave input
2.12Vrms +7.74 dBu with a 0 dBFS sinewave input
1.06Vrms +2.72 dBu with a 0 dBFS sinewave input

I plug my Weiss directly into the power amps via a two-way switch. My phono stage also plugs directly into the amps via the same switch.

Cheers,

DV
 
The preamplifier question is splitted into two camps. It seem that more people are joining the no preamplifier approach but apart from ''more transparency'' you do not hear nobody talking about better dynamics and musical flow.

Why does the analog stage of a dac suddenly equals and even surpass the output of the best preamplifiers. Is there a new technology that some have missed?

Why does well respected manufacturers such as Naim and others continue to develop and offer very ambitious linestages? I just don't think it is for pecuniary reasons but sound quality must be the obvious reason.
 
TLS said:
The preamplifier question is splitted into two camps. It seem that more people are joining the no preamplifier approach but apart from ''more transparency'' you do not hear nobody talking about better dynamics and musical flow.

Why does the analog stage of a dac suddenly equals and even surpass the output of the best preamplifiers. Is there a new technology that some have missed?

Why does well respected manufacturers such as Naim and others continue to develop and offer very ambitious linestages? I just don't think it is for pecuniary reasons but sound quality must be the obvious reason.
Click to expand...

Are you saying an additional preamplifier stage between a DAC and a power amp could improve sound quality?
 
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