Nagraboy
Ausculta fili
I think it’s at a stage where a lot of people only see what they want to see. I see it in both of them to some extent, but clearly more so with Biden.
Post-Trump: III (decline, further tantrums, legal proceedings, book deals etc)
- Thread starter Yank
- Start date
I think it’s at a stage where a lot of people only see what they want to see. I see it in both of them to some extent, but clearly more so with Biden.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
You must know this is bonkers right? To the extent when people read your post the natural inclination is to assume you are acting from a partisan POV or in bad faith?
Trump gives every indication of being seriously ill. Biden looks like an 80 year-old but otherwise healthy man. Look at this interview -- he is perfectly fine and answering questions just fine (his well known stammer issues notwithstanding). Trump, by contrast is incoherent and often unintelligible *even when reading a speech* and looks like a walking case study for neurological decline.
Both of them are getting on in years so it's natural to slip up cognitively and physically but Trump's decline does seem more pronounced, at least based on recent performances. He could, of course, be drugged up on something as well (McDonald's sugar and salt perhaps?). I guess it's all speculation at this point. What we can be sure of is that being President of the US is punishing and that both men are old, and be near-as sure that Trump has a personality disorder which, among other things, affects his relationship with reality.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
It's not a question about getting on a bit, Trump is very obviously ill. Biden is not.
I don't say this lightly and I fully acknowledge the difficulties of remote diagnoses but at this point there is lots (literally years!) of evidence of Trump's illness and AFAICT the only reason people think Biden might be suffering from some form of dementia is that MAGA people and FOX News have spent a lot of time falsely claiming he is.
I mean it really is that simple and we are ill-served by people continuing to pretend it isn't.
Nagraboy
Ausculta fili
@matthewr
I would say you’re perhaps too partisan to see the reality. The reason I think Biden is not in a good state is from videos I’ve seen of him where he can’t finish sentences without help from aides or the interviewer themselves, or just not making sense, or saying he’s running for the senate, etc etc. I see Trump as much less impaired because I’ve not seen much evidence of serious mental decline in his speech. He’s clearly more spry and much sharper than Biden right now. He’s been speaking at live events for hours and hours per day for the last few years yet I’ve not seen any bombshell footage. Biden on the other hand, was rarely seen during the election campaign and seems to avoid press interaction as much as possible. Perhaps his team are shielding him from the spotlight for health reasons as gaff-avoidance. Even the video earlier in the thread seems marginal and more like Trump just run out of things to say but with an old man’s dodderiness, pretty much. I’d quite happily concede that his condition is worse if I could see it on video. Either way, Biden’s condition is more important as he is President and much hinges on his judgement abilities. I hope he’s as healthy as you insist for everyone’s sake but it does not appear that way to me.
I would say you’re perhaps too partisan to see the reality. The reason I think Biden is not in a good state is from videos I’ve seen of him where he can’t finish sentences without help from aides or the interviewer themselves, or just not making sense, or saying he’s running for the senate, etc etc. I see Trump as much less impaired because I’ve not seen much evidence of serious mental decline in his speech. He’s clearly more spry and much sharper than Biden right now. He’s been speaking at live events for hours and hours per day for the last few years yet I’ve not seen any bombshell footage. Biden on the other hand, was rarely seen during the election campaign and seems to avoid press interaction as much as possible. Perhaps his team are shielding him from the spotlight for health reasons as gaff-avoidance. Even the video earlier in the thread seems marginal and more like Trump just run out of things to say but with an old man’s dodderiness, pretty much. I’d quite happily concede that his condition is worse if I could see it on video. Either way, Biden’s condition is more important as he is President and much hinges on his judgement abilities. I hope he’s as healthy as you insist for everyone’s sake but it does not appear that way to me.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Sorry, Nagraboy, I just can’t see it the way you see it and I’m with Matthew on this.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
This is getting weird. Watch the Biden video above he answers questions normally and coherently in a live interview. Watch Trumps most recent video and he is slurring, incoherent and on several occasions literally uses the wrong words. This is not a partisan or shades of grey thing thing you are denying the very obvious reality of the situation.
Can you provide some video evidence that shows Biden in the manner you suggest? I mean not a single word fumble but something like Trump's most recent video where he is slurring and incoherent over an extended period of time?
Nagraboy
Ausculta fili
@matthewr
I did watch the Biden video and could see it was quite obviously edited and cut several times when Joe hadn’t finished speaking. It wasn’t a raw video so isn’t illustrative of your point.
I’ll see if I can find some of the clips I’ve seen but it’s not something I’d want to spend much time on outside of a quick chat like this really.
I did watch the Biden video and could see it was quite obviously edited and cut several times when Joe hadn’t finished speaking. It wasn’t a raw video so isn’t illustrative of your point.
I’ll see if I can find some of the clips I’ve seen but it’s not something I’d want to spend much time on outside of a quick chat like this really.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
There’s days of footage of Trump for everyone to see. Two things will strike the casual viewer- firstly just how intellectually dim he is then the malignant personality- the lying, the complete absence of empathy and the self regard. The emotional neediness. Can you imagine even having to spend ten minutes with that? You’d age ten years. What’s incredible is the behaviour of those who latched onto him and facilitated him.
Last edited:
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Who cares about the nomenclature, will someone not step forward and put the pillow over his face? Regrettably we have Uday and Qusay and their heritable traits to deal with next.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Of course those of us with long enough memories to remember, checks notes, last year recall when Trump looked terrible relative to Biden in lightly edited 60 minutes videos and then insisted he would be vindicated by the raw footage, which he released. How'd that work out?
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/media/2020/10/25/trump-biden-60-minutes/6012574002/
Alas, MyPillowGuy is a big supporter.
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Did someone turn up the gaslight in here?
Allan Probin
pfm Member
I wonder if that trousers-on-backwards thing was just a carefully thought-out and stage managed “incident”. Knowing it would be captured on camera his defence lawyers could easily recall it in coming months as evidence that their client is unfit to stand trial.
Enfield boy
pfm Member
He's clearly very talented and flexible. I could never do my suit trousers up backwards, even less fasten my belt. Someone's done it for him, he may be suffering from dementia but that doesn't make him a formerly good person.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
From a psychodynamic perspective there is one striking difference between Trump and Biden- Trump is a c*nt.
Hook
Blackbeard's former bo'sun.
T***p’s pants were not on backwards. They looked funny because of the wrinkles. But he sounded terrible, and is likely experiencing some form of mental decline. In fact, I am pretty sure it’s contagious. Just look at how many people who are close to him say and do incredibly stupid things (e.g., MyPillowIdiot).
There’s no denying Biden’s age, his stutter, or even the occasional gaff or other odd remark. Public speaking has never been his strength. But he does know what he’s doing. He makes his points very clearly, and I believe his heart is in the right place. Age gets to us all, but I know several people in their late 80’s who can think and communicate very clearly. Age alone will not determine whether Biden runs for a second term.
There’s no denying Biden’s age, his stutter, or even the occasional gaff or other odd remark. Public speaking has never been his strength. But he does know what he’s doing. He makes his points very clearly, and I believe his heart is in the right place. Age gets to us all, but I know several people in their late 80’s who can think and communicate very clearly. Age alone will not determine whether Biden runs for a second term.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Trump’s other gift to the nation was his sadism, like an infectious disease. The scenes of black protesters being frog marched out of his rallies being sucker punched by angry white participants while he egged them on. The constant targeting of threats at journalists reporting from the venues then finally the eruption of industrial scale police violence against innocent demonstrators and the fatal attack on the Capitol again personally egged in by him.
Yank
Bulbous Also Tapered
Umberto Eco's 14 steps of Fascism:
1 : The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2: The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3: The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4: Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
5: Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
6: Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
7 : The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
8 : The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9 : Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
10: Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
11: Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
12: Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
13: Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
14: Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”