advertisement


Of all hifi components, turntables are the ones most sensitive to being installed perfectly level. It's possible that your recent upgrades have exacerbated any issues around its placement and these are now more audible, not being masked by that lovely mellow bloom of the trad. Linn.
 
The deck is likely not sited in a suitable place - it has always been on a carpeted floor, and is now on a turntable base of some sort that has no feet, sitting on top of the Naim amp. Far from ideal I'm sure. It's going to take a while to get the room right to properly accommodate it unfortunately.

Nonono! I suggest there is your problem! DO NOT sit the TT on top of the amp. It's now on a "turntable base of some sort that has no feet" - so why can't you sit the TT base on the carpet, like it used to be? Or buy 4 bricks and put two in line either side of the TT base on their edges - to provide a support?
 
Check this, adjust that, lubricate the other... Jeez! Faff galore, yet Nirvana never arrives.

Just possibly, if you listen to classical music... realise that it is not well served by the LP format and get your sounds from a digital source? Then just play music?

Definitely don't want to start a vinyl vs other formats argument but I don't agree that the LP format is not suitable for classical music. Naturally since I was a little boy, I have been more drawn to the sound from analogue sources - I've always been disappointed with CDs etc but I didn't know why when I was little. I've been trying to figure it out since. The finest experience I have ever had listening to classical music (aside from being front of an actual orchestra) is a particular LP I own. Currently I mostly listen to recordings which would have been made to tape and then cut to vinyl. I don't like introducing 1's and 0's into the chain if possible. Digital absolutely has its place and I work with it daily, but I just know where I find the magic and what delights me. And I agree one shouldn't obsess over gear and forget about the music - I play music pretty much constantly!
 
The Cirkus bearing has a lot more detail in the higher frequency's & loses a lot of the low end bloom that characterized the original bearing. As such bass power ( the warmth you heard) may not be to your liking. Also with this extra definition in the higher frequency's the deck may now be portraying (bad) points that were previously masked. This, together with the Ittok's not so terrible but has (IMPOV) to some extent a somewhat grainy & harsh top end which could be to blame.

I think many would disagree with me on the Ittok but having heard both the Ekos 1/2 & Ittok it becomes clear where it's weaknesses show itself. The later the Ittok tho' the better they are.

Very interesting, thank you. I had read somewhere on here that the original bearing is preferable to some. Grainy and harsh mids / top end is what I'm getting but I'm still surprised that a working Ittok would render exceptionally well mixed tracks so poorly. I shall try to hunt it down via a process of elimination!
 
I have a couple of thousand classical LPs and understand where the OP is coming from. This is also why I got a Technics ultimately (having owned an LP12/Ittok for 25 years).
 
What are you using as an amp? LS/35as can be difficult. No difference with a digital source? I would get the suspension fiddled, and yeah, maybe check the tonearm bearings, height and cartridge alignment. Based on your description, the arm pillar may be a bit too high.

While the Karma is a fine cartridge, they have not been made for 30 years, and I would not think that it will be easy to find a good one. Not to mention it is a Moving Coil cartridge and your phono preamp does not have enough gain for that.

It's a Naim Unitilite. Prior to using it I did speak to Andy at Rogers who said it would be ok and give the Rogers the drive they need. The sound was beautiful prior to the LP12 changes, but ultimately I will look for the right amp to bring the best out of the speakers. Will bear in mind what you've said about the Karma - just a note that the phono stage does have a button to switch to MC, do you think it will not be enough?
 
Setup, I t’ll be the setup somehow.

Check the basics on the cartridge setup and work out from there. While it could be an odd issue somewhere else it’s unlikely compared to the high chance that something hasn’t been done right on the setup. Whole deck has been rebuilt. Start on the cartridge and work out from there.

Thank you - yes I have been wondering if the setup is off, or if one of the replacement parts is just knackered!
 
I think it is likely to be a set-up issue and with a bit of tuning, you could get it to sound better. Taking it to a competent dealer to have it looked over and listened to is a good idea, if there is an underlying issue with one of the components you installed then they will be able to identify this. Good luck.
BTW I used my LP12, Ittock and Dynavector 10x5 when it was at a similar level to yours with a Lite for a bit and it sounded great through that.

Thank you - that's good to know! Yes, booked in for a listening session with the dealer tomorrow morning.
 
Use a test record/blank record, and measure the noise and FR with different bearing/sub chassis setups… but with everything else unchanged.

I’ve heard pretty significant improvements each time I’ve upgraded it, and I’ve attributed that to reduced noise/rumble, improved mounting interface and stiffer sub chassis, which the Majik, Kore and Keel definitely are… and I believe the Cirkus sub chassis was too. The newer (current) range of sub chassis are progressively stiffer and more inert, and that definitely shows in how they present music (with greater resolution and tonal accuracy… now whether you actually prefer the newer LP12 sound is another matter altogether… I do, mine has a Kore and Karousel and it’s pretty much all the deck I could ever need, no real desire to spend more on it.

Thank you - that's very interesting, I wasn't aware of that test. I should learn how to install these parts myself ideally so I can do all these tests.

I will also check how a newer high-spec LP12 sounds instore, so I can check that I'm going in the right direction.
 
Thank you for this - I will take these notes to the dealer tomorrow. I would love to be able to do these myself, however I have no experience. And after watching someone on YouTube trying to restore an LP12 and concluding that he wished he'd never started and recommending nobody else ever attempt it, I thought I should probably leave it to the professionals!
That's fine - be aware that there are dealers and 'dealers'. I have seen some bearings installed so tight that the mounting surface has deformed (less easy with the modern ones) but 'Linn tight' is still a maxim of many 'dealers'. It's far easier to do it yourself than many would have you think, most of whom want to make some money out of you!
 
I am keen to learn about best placement for a turntable, so please do let me know any tips.

Light and rigid is the name of the game.

The cheapest hi-end option is Ikea Lack table (£12).

The best is wall shelf - you can't post ad in classifieds here on pfm yet, but I'm sure someone will come along in this thread and offer you one for decent money.
 
You could buy a Technics, which from what I've heard gives you most of what a half decent Linn does with none of the faff and less cost. No, I'm not kidding.

Personally, I love the LP12 and have no intention of getting rid of it but what can I say, the deck can be a pain in the rear. There are so many configurations and qualifications I hardly know where to start.

First, who built the deck? From my experience there are more people who aren't very good at setting up an LP12 than are. I'm talking about Linn dealers here. You can't assume it's been done right and if wrong it will not sound good.

The Ittok is a good arm, much better than a Basik, but it is not a neutral sounding device. It has great bass but an upper mid/lower treble lift which can make it sound dynamic and impressive on good recordings but harsh on others. You end up playing records that sound good with it rather than just playing the music you like.

The Cirkus bearing is cleaner and more detailed than the older bearing but it does remove some of the air and fullness. I prefer the older bearing but I can live with the Cirkus in the right context.

There is nothing wrong with the Adikt except that it is ridiculously overpriced. It's a Goldring G1012 in drag. You can do better but it sounded ok before, right? It should simply sound even better if the rest of the deck was right. It's not your problem unless it is damaged.

So my bet is poor set up, something wrong with the arm or you just don't like it. You may not like the Cirkus but it shouldn't kill the sound the way you describe.

This is super helpful thank you - I will take these notes with me tomorrow to the listening session. I sourced most of the parts secondhand (aside fromt he Valhalla, which is new) and it was set up by Oranges & Lemons in London. They supplied a secondhand bearing and subchassis. Yes the Adikt was ok before, but overall I was after a better bass response. Got that with the Ittok but the mids and top end went haywire. As part of experimenting I will change back to the subchassis and old bearing - luckily I kept them just in case. And I'll see if the dealer can find out if the arm is duff. Thanks again for all these points!
 
You don't have to keep digging. A Sondek can be a bottomless pit, and even if you spend a fortune bringing it closer to what you want, there are other very affordable and excellent decks which don't need endless upgrades. I bought a used Well Tempered Amadeus for £1400. Bargain. It has required very little fussing about and sounds superb. I also have a couple of Technics 1210s and a couple of Garrard 301s. All these decks are bargains by comparison, and perform very reliably at a very high level for a fraction of what I've spent on my Sondek.

My Sondek is Lingo/Stack Alto/Karousel/In-Soles btw, and I can honestly say it does not outperform my other decks. I use the same arms and cartridges across all these decks, routinely, so I am constantly comparing the decks themselves.

Thank you. I was hoping to just do a few upgrades but perhaps I'm scrabbling around at the top of a long and slippery slope!
 
There is no witchcraft or faf involved in setting up an LP12. It takes about 20mins if that. Once it’s done it’s done. It doesn’t “go off”. If done incorrectly or the provenance of the parts used is sketchy or the components are mismatched then there will be problems. Like with anything. There are some great guides available on the Cymbiosis website if you fancy having a go but there are good dealers who will do it for you for very little dosh. A good dealer will also know if anything is amiss. Mine was done at my dealer and has sounded wonderful since then (3yrs) and I have knocked it accidentally a couple of times :rolleyes:

Thank you - Oranges & Lemons in London set it up for me and they were happy with all the parts supplied but are now going to look if any of them are causing the issues.
 
The Cirkus needs a better subchassis. I’d look into getting a Majik, Kore or one of the aftermarket alternatives. The Adikt on the Ittok should work well. Place the turntable on a light rigid stand and make sure you have a new Linn belt. If you want to remove a lot of faff dealing with an LP12, replace the sprung suspension with Audio Silente Mushrooms or Analogue Innovations In-Soles. Removing the sprung suspension was a fundamental improvement for my LP12 and cost peanuts compared to most things LP12.

Thank you - very helpful. You're the second person to recommend the Mushrooms or In-Soles, but apparently the latter arent available currently. I'll look into everything, really appreciate your help.
 
Not being harsh but the moment you feel you need to upgrade or modify an LP12 stop and look for a different TT.

The LP12 in it's unfettered form is a nice musical deck, nothing magical or special just musical.

Personally I would sell the LP12 and buy a PT1/Anni or a Voyd

The Adikt is ok but again is trounced by a AN IQ2 for the same price and the Ittok is well, just over rated.

Thank you! Quite happy for people to be harsh if I learn something from it haha. In truth I haven't look at other decks yet but very willing. The reason I ended up with the Adikt is as I spotted some new old stock for half the price of one from Linn. I was hoping to just get the LP12 to a point I was happy with and then stop, not endlessly upgrade. I feel like I'm going to find out which way to go very soon!
 


advertisement


Back
Top