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Parlour trick

Why am I not surprised, equipment where the sound changes obviously with a different power cord is either broken or the cable is doing something rally bad - deliberate series resistance etc
 
I seen a nordost demo in Dublin and he alway states to the audience at how the volume on the pre amp stayed the same.
 
Erm, I can see the headlines now "Salesman Caught in not Entirely Honest Demo of Snake Oil" not really news is it? Some could be surprised by this "revelation" because it seems Nordost that is up to tricks, others may not be at all surprised. Where there is money to be made (and boy Nordost stuff is expensive, how the **** can a mains cable cost that much? Even the Powerline where Naim have R&D costs for their own plugs to cover is comparatively cheap to Nordost "better" stuff) then salesman's tricks will be employed. I don't suggest all salesmen are bent or up to tricks, but merely reflect on the likely hood that a salesman, being only human, may resort to ways to sell when it may otherwise be a difficult sell. I should own up to hearing differences in cables and being willing to try screened versus non screened and better mechanical connectors to reduce the effects of vibrations, etc. I should also own up to being skeptical that all salesmen are saints sent to earth to assist us in our purchases with no bias towards things that may line their pockets in some direct or indirect way...

Thanks for the link OP!
 
A couple of years ago I attended a show where one of the rooms was being manned by the erstwhile scribe and editor Alan Sircom. Part of the system was a Wadia CD player on Nordost Sort cones (and a Kab platform I seem to remember) The room wasn't very busy so, being curious, we asked him if he could demo it with and without the cones and platform. The three of us all heard minor changes in the sound and all three of us preferred it without cones or platform. I also attended another demo by Alan in which he openly stated that it was a demo of a rigged demonstration and did all the known tricks, including adjusting the volume. Amazingly, about half the audience still chose the cable they had been told to like even after being told the demo was a fix!
 
hammeredklavier said:
$6000 for a kettle lead?! Every day a new sucker is born...
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It would be rather nice to attend one of these dems and ask if they will play your favourite track which you just happen to have in your pocket. Persistence in this request would either expose these people for the brigands that they are or get yourself thrown out of the dem room . In either case the snake oil sales people would be diverted for a spell.
I rather like the reference to the ordinary cable in the walls. If its in the UK its 2.5 mm Twin and Earth.
I wonder how the kettle lead improves that? Once upon a time there was............................................................
 
<moderating>

It is worth pointing out that the content from www.realhd-audio.com, a site that appears to be a blog by the article writer Mark Waldrep, has been self-removed as a result of a Cease And Desist order from Nordost. As everyone knows truth is a defence against charges of libel, yet the author/site owner caved and removed it. As such it is IMHO most unwise to give the removed content any weight or credibility at all.

PS Here's Waldrep's retraction: www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5677
 
Or someone who just doesn't want to get involved with litegation regardless of the truth of the matter.

A more convincing defense from nordost would be to invite independent observers to participate in a test and allow scrutiny of their methods, not to threaten legal action.

I guarantee they won't do that.
 
BE718 said:
A more convincing defense from nordost would be to invite independent observers to participate in a test and allow scrutiny of their methods, not to threaten legal action.

I guarantee they won't do that.
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You are assuming a blog-writer without the confidence to stand behind his words is telling the truth. That is a huge assumption IMO, especially with the current fashion for knocking cables, accessories etc. Nordorst do publicly demonstrate their goods, and as it is not a blind test anyone is able to see if the demonstrator is riding the volume knob or not. By the fact they are prepared to risk a potentially costly legal challenge could also be viewed as their confidence in their dem/test methodology.

PS I am not siding with Nordorst, I have no horse in this race, I'm just very wary of unsubstantiated internet claims as I have in my time seen many bare-faced lies and personal slurs made from entrenched agenda positions.
 
Tony L said:
<moderating>

It is worth pointing out that the content from www.realhd-audio.com, a site that appears to be a blog by the article writer Mark Waldrep, has been self-removed as a result of a Cease And Desist order from Nordost. As everyone knows truth is a defence against charges of libel, yet the author/site owner caved and removed it. As such it is IMHO most unwise to give the removed content any weight or credibility at all.

PS Here's Waldrep's retraction: www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5677
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First, I agree that one should treat all one-man blog articles with due sceptisism.

Second, that retraction does not smack of deep and sincere regret for posting what went before.
 
Most of us here will be aware of the charges Waldrep made a few months ago against Audioquest. In that case it was possible to provide pretty conclusive evidence that marketing material for AQ's HDMI cables had been 'enhanced', and AQ's Bill Low admitted as much in an open letter to Stereophile.

It may be that in the case of the nordost demo Waldrep has overreached himself. It would certainly be difficult to provide any evidence of the claims he makes, and for that reason (as Tony has suggested) he had little choice but to retract.
 
BE718 said:
Or someone who just doesn't want to get involved with litegation regardless of the truth of the matter.

A more convincing defense from nordost would be to invite independent observers to participate in a test and allow scrutiny of their methods, not to threaten legal action.

I guarantee they won't do that.
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I have been present at quite a few Nordost dems at UK shows. They invariably use SimAudio Moon kit, with a huge numeric display of volume level. I have chatted to the presenter and this is quite deliberate, to make sure no such tricks as are alleged have taken place could occur and not be noticed.

I've also rifled through the CDs being used for the dems, and they looked like proper commercial pressings, not rips to a CD-R. my impressions of the Nordost dems I've attended are that they take some trouble to avoid anybody having a basis for the sort of accusations levelled here.
 
Tony L said:
<moderating>
As everyone knows truth is a defence against charges of libel, yet the author/site owner caved and removed it.
PS Here's Waldrep's retraction: www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5677
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Not quite m/lud. As a long-term reader of "Private Eye" I'm aware that the situation wrt libel isn't so simple, alas.

In the *USA* "truth" is a pretty solid defence. However for some curious reason people outwith the UK have taken to bringing their libel cases within the England and Wales jurisdiction. Where "truth" is simply a factor to be taken into account. But the judgement may be mainly based on "damage to reputation" and if the person being sued intended this, or reasonably expected it to arise.

So AIUI you *can* successfully be sued for libel, even if what was written is shown to be 'true'. And along the way, you may be forced to pay a *lot* of money to defend yourself. Thus big companies and the rich can sue and essentially bankrupt you before you can get though to a verdict that might decide you were 'innocent'. Let alone get a judgement that your costs should be paid by the person bringing suit.

IANAL and I have no idea what was behind what was written on the webpages. But you can't easily assess what a 'takedown' means.
 
Tony L said:
It is worth pointing out that the content from www.realhd-audio.com, a site that appears to be a blog by the article writer Mark Waldrep, has been self-removed as a result of a Cease And Desist order from Nordost. As everyone knows truth is a defence against charges of libel, yet the author/site owner caved and removed it. As such it is IMHO most unwise to give the removed content any weight or credibility at all.
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The letter presumably said something along the lines of if you don't have evidence to prove the allegations remove them or else we are taking you to court. Unless he has videos, copies of the CDs, sworn testimony from people in the audience,... and is willing to put up substantial sums of money to go to court then taking them down is the sensible thing to do. The point has been made and the cease and desist letters has only helped make it.

People that want to purchase expensive cables want them to make a difference and magic tricks like this help provide that difference for them. Since audiophile cables are wholly unnecessary luxury goods I am not sure magic tricks like this are crossing a line in the way they obviously would be if it was something a bit more important.
 
Surely when you say 'magic tricks like this' you mean 'magic tricks such as have been alleged and those allegations subsequently withdrawn'.

Just for balance, as it seems to have been overlooked by many, I have offered my own personal view of what happens at Nordost gigs in the UK, which appears entirely contradictory to what is alleged, and indeed appears designed, at least in part, to prevent such allegations having any ring of truth.
 
h.g. said:
The letter presumably said something along the lines of if you don't have evidence to prove the allegations remove them or else we are taking you to court. Unless he has videos, copies of the CDs, sworn testimony from people in the audience,... and is willing to put up substantial sums of money to go to court then taking them down is the sensible thing to do. The point has been made and the cease and desist letters has only helped make it.

People that want to purchase expensive cables want them to make a difference and magic tricks like this help provide that difference for them. Since audiophile cables are wholly unnecessary luxury goods I am not sure magic tricks like this are crossing a line in the way they obviously would be if it was something a bit more important.
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Conversely Nordost may be protecting themselves from what they view as an internet warrior with an agenda making up slurs. None of us know where the truth lies here, and I'm tempted to side with the one who is prepared to take it to court if necessary. One has to contrast the removed blog site "testimony" with that in post #15 where a pfm member states Nordorst very deliberately use equipment with a massive digital volume display to avoid such charges of shenanigans.
 
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