advertisement


P.G.A.H. VOIGT: A Great Audio Inventor

eguth said:
Richard C.

Interesting. But have you heard the Voigt corner horn? In a domestic setting? Playing mono (1 horn) or stereo (i.e. with 2 horns)?

Please don’t think that I am pressurising you to do so. Although attempts have been made in this direction (in my direction), I can tell you that someone would have an uphill battle trying to persuade me to walk across the road to hear 2 Voigt corner horns playing ‘stereo’- let alone go all the way to Hastings to get such a thrill.

I’d be interested in hearing a Tannoy Autograph (or two)!

Your comments remind me of my own opinion that many speaker owners do become attached and satisfied with the speakers they have- myself included. If not, they would change them; or become perpetual speaker builders- some of whom seem to be in a perpetual state of flux.
Click to expand...

I have heard a couple of Voight designs, both of the pipe variety and a long time ago - I have not heard a corner variant which I imagine, due to the horn extension provided by the side walls, might be quite something. Paul Voight worked from first principles and he made a major and unique contribution to the general art of speaker design. And I say "art" advisedly because you can employ any amount of physics theory, but the end product which after all, is reproducing art, has to be similarly created.

Returning to your observation about personal tastes, I think as part of this discussion one has to recognise that not everyone is enamoured of horn loaded cabinets and dissenting views expressed by serious critics are entirely legitimate. Furthermore, horn loaded boxes are not universally suitable; I don't play rock and similar stuff, (for me it's mostly chamber music) but if I did, I would prefer a reflex design which in my judgment would be better suited to this genre. So the discussion should take place within the ambit of horn loading, be it front, back or in the case of my corner Autographs, both.

I also think, and I believe that Voight shared this view, that internal volume is a factor important in achieving the best results - for this reason I have never understood the appeal of things like Lowthers and the Tannoy Cornetta, for example. If I were to consider replacing my existing speakers, I would very seriously consider something from the Voight stable, for along with Ronald Rackham, I consider him one of the premier designers of the last seventy years.

There are those (and I might be one, although I'm a bit agnostic on the point) who claim that stereo is an unecessary complication and just muddies the waters. I have to say that some of the finest musical reproduction I have heard was in pre-stereo times and from a single, horn loaded corner cabinet. However, not many these days would want to go down that path.

I suspect we might share a number of similar views on tnis subject.:D
 
I understand from the July and August 2013 postings in this wonderful thread powered by Eguth, that some controversy exist regarding stereophonic reproduction using Voigt Domestic Horns, and also in certain other areas.
Perhaps it could be interesting to put this topic into historical perspective by the attached link below, documenting that Mr. Voigt believed in stereophonic reproduction and that it is believed he made the first two-channel demonstrations to an audience in Great Britain, using loudspeakers.
He used the Domestic Horns.
The first event took place March 25 1936 at the Institution of Electrical Engineers. (#58 in References and Voigts letter for Dulwich College shown in post #16)
I can not, during writing this, be shure the attached link for a page discribing the event is actually readable, so allow me to refer in brief:
Mr. Voigt started the event by sounding an automotive horn and later a consertina musical instrument only to reveal that neither was functional and that all sounds were reproduced by the horns.
This caused an applause by the audience, which had been truly decieved.
Next, an orchestra was performing with two mics. before them in a room acroos the corridor. The audience then had the opportunity to walk between the rooms for comparison.
The article refers this to be the first public demonstration of stereophonic reproduction in Great Britain, via loudspeakers.

Very little stereophonic recorded material was available at the time.
Although Mr. Blumlein developed the stereophonic groove for record discs during 1931-33, this technique was not adopted by the record companies until 25 years later.

For futher perspective it can be noted that stereophonic reproduction via headphones had been going on for a while at the time of Mr. Voigts demonstration.
In 1881 Mr. Clement Ader rigged the Paris opera stage with mics. and offered the public to have a listen in rooms separated from the stage.
Further, in 1895-1925 the Electrophone in England (a slotmachine) offered stereophonic reproduction via headphones. Source: Wikiaudio.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/65583803@N03/sets/ (look for two channel reproduction)


Lastly, I can not help commenting post no. 75 and the below text by Mr. Haden Boardman:

PHP: 
Haden Boardman summed up the suitability of the Voigt corner horn for stereo nicely.

“…the Voigt corner horn of the 1930s used reflectors to tame the directionality of the driver and spread out the sound… 
…perhaps this idea was 100% right for mono but its 100% wrong for stereo…” Sound Practices, VOL 2:4, issue 8, p.12

Stereo imagery, well recorded, can only be well reproduced using highly directional speakers. This the Voigt corner horn certainly is not.

Voigt never had two corner horns in Canada- as far as I have been able to discover. He was, therefore, unable to carry out his intended stereo experiments.

I believe that what I posted in post #75 (above) is correct.

If a stereo recording has little recorded imagery depth, or you don’t care about imaging, or you can’t hear imagery very well, or your system is inadequate you will be satisfied with semi- stereo or quasi-stereo or shallow imaging.

I my humble opinion, Mr. Boardman is both right and wrong. Let me explain:
If one takes an Anyone speaker and puts it Anywhere in Anyroom he may be right. In such case early reflections from the side walls could arrive in force and with a short delay wrt. the direct sound from the speaker.
This is quite tiring to the ear and one could then benefit from having toed-in speakers being more directional.
However, this would leave just a sweet spot for stereo listening !
But for the Voigt Domestics with a 90° designed distribution pattern situated at 45° in a corner, very little side wall reflection will occur, since the sound beams, at worst, will be almost parallel to the side walls.
Thus, a much larger proportion of the room will be available for stereo listening, with very late room reflections coming from opposite walls, giving a much higher direct/reflected ratio.

I have listened to my Voigt Domestics in stereo set-up for some years now. I can assure you that stereo information is certainly existing and I enjoy stereo in almost the entire room.
The real trouble is, I think, that not many true 2-mic. recordings are available; almost all recordings use multimiking which makes all these discussions rather academic in terms of reproducing a credible image of a stage or orchestra.
 
The discussion has now become, in an interesting way, one which involves different questions.
In my view these are:

1) Whether mono is a better way of conveying recorded music than stereo;

2) whether stereo reproduction is best via omnidirectional (or semi-omnidirectional) speakers- or via highly directional ones;

3) whether Voigt corner horns (DCH) are the best choice for certain types of music- either one DCH for mono or two for stereo;

4) whether Voigt DCH’s were designed for mono or stereo;

5) whether DCH's sound their most realistic used to play mono recordings or playing stereo recordings;

6) whether the sort of microphones and their configurations and/or mixing affect any of the above;

7) whether the bass extension and quality of the bass in the recording affects one’s perception of the suitability of the DCH;

8) whether the type of music one mostly listens to affects the choice of speaker and assessment of the DCH;

9) whether by ‘stereo imagery’ one means primarily stereo width, or stereo depth, or both;

10) whether DCHs used for stereo convey good and realistic imagery depth in comparison with other speakers.

There are, no doubt, many other considerations.
 
I have now posted updated photos of Voigt's childhood home. Please visit Page 1 of this thread.
 
I have now posted a charming letter, typed by Voigt to Thomson, dated 20th February 1973. This does reveal some clues about his personality. To view the letter please see p.2 of this thread, section [IX CANADA].
 
I am pleased to be able to post two more photos, these taken 1902 and 1907-see p.1. (IV Home) of this thread. Acknowledgement has been given in the ACKNOWLEDGEMENT section of this thread.

Special thanks to B.G. Rasmussen.
 
NEW ARCHIVE FACILITY

I have been given the opportunity to visit and inspect the new IET Archive Centre, which is housed on the lower ground floor of Savoy Hill House, a separate building around the corner from the IET’s London home, Savoy Place, which is currently closed for a two-year refurbishment project.

The Assistant Archivist had some very good news. Best news of all relates to Voigt. The IET Archives will provide a home for material relating to Paul Voigt to assist researchers and others to get information about this historically important engineer. The archives will also increase visibility of the material through cataloguing, adding to its online catalogue, and assisting in its preservation though digitising the deposited material.

1. Setup of the new archive facility

The building of the new IET Archive Centre was completed in December 2013 and was opened to IET members and the public in March 2014. The archive collections are well protected, being stored in a facility which has been built using British Standard Public Document PD 5454:2012 recommendations (the guide for the storage and exhibition of archival materials). This includes security measures such as CCTV and measures taken to protect against damage from fire and water.

The IET Archives consist of an administrative/conservation office with a table for researchers/visitors and a strongroom for the archive collections – both of these rooms are locked separately. The strongroom has a VESDA fire suppression system and the walls have protective coatings made by the company Sika to provide protection against fire and water damage. The room has an additional dehumidifier to manage small changes in relative humidity. The new steel storage racking is of archival standard.

Loose documents are either, tied with archival cotton tape, put into acid-free envelopes, or stored in archival 4-flap folders. Photographs are put into protective polyester sleeves before being put into an envelope. These tied bundles, envelopes and folders are then put into acid-free archival storage boxes which are held together by brass (rust-free) staples. These boxes are then shelved on racks. The storage room is kept locked and access strictly controlled.

2. Procedure on acceptance of documents

New deposits details are added to the accessions database, and then catalogued. The catalogue is publicly available to search online. Scans may be made where appropriate - including scans of anything of interest on the back of a photo or document. These scans are saved in formats as advised by The National Archives in its guidance on digitisation.

3. Additional new storage facility in Oxfordshire

Within a year, most new deposits are moved from the storage facility at Savoy Hill House to offsite archival storage in Oxfordshire, at a former US air force base. This archive storage facility, which is also new, is part of the National Conservation Service Collaborative Storage Scheme and the facilities also meet PD 5454:2012.
The storage facility is operated by the company Restore, which uses a dedicated fleet of vans to transport heritage material between the facility and the client’s premises, in this case the IET Archive Centre.

4. Access

All archived material, once catalogued, can be viewed in the online catalogue which can be found via a link on the IET Archives website. In addition, upon appointment, (5 days’ notice), researchers can come to the Savoy Hill House archive and see the original material.

I was impressed by the efforts and demonstration I witnessed at the new IET Archive Centre - so much so that I have now deposited all of the rare material I held on Voigt.

I urge everyone to do likewise wherever they are located in the world.
The IET Archives are, potentially, the world’s most important repository of Voigt documentary material. Savoy Hill House utilises the latest IT technology. This is a state- of- the- art facility.


Readers of this thread will be aware of the great contribution Voigt made to audio history. He was not given enough official recognition during his lifetime. It may be too late for what is due to Voigt, but everyone can do their bit to contribute any documents they have into the permanent IET Archive collection.

lamp post by Round Person, on Flickr

IET Archives are at:-
IET Archive Centre, Savoy Hill House, 7-10 Savoy Hill, London WC2R OBU, U.K.

Website: www.theiet.org/archives
Email: [email protected]
Phone: +44 (0) 20 7344 8407
 
A new Archive is good news, and welcome. Voigt was indeed a great genius of the early days of audio. However the sterile debate about whether the corner horn can be used effectively for modern two-channel recordings is absurd.
There are two groups of people involved.
The first owns original Voigts, have built painstakingly accurate replicas, and made the details publicly available for the first time ever. We use Voigt Horns in stereo, we are able to compare them with the best modern speakers. All of us are quite clear that the Voigts work very well indeed in two channel mode. Which is why the late Editor of Hi Fi News, John Crabbe, used a pair as his personal system in the 50s and 60s. And it it why Paul Messenger reviewed a pair for Stereophille three years ago and praised them highly...not a word of complaint about imaging.
Then we have a second group, who have little, or no, real experience of this speaker, who have certainly never owned or used a pair. And yet they feel free to lecture those with actual experience, on the basis of a highly selective reading of the literature. There is no record of Voigt ever stating that his creations were unsuitable for two-channel use; not a word , and I note that a range of other great speakers were also designed long before stereo....quad 57, Western Electric, Klischorn, Vitavox, and so on.
there is only one meaningful test...hearing a pair, at length, with good equipment in a normal room. The harshest critic of our work has been invited to inspect them, hear them and examine all our records
He has declined to do so. This puts him in the position of a man who has never drunk wine, lecturing thoe who have, on the basis hat he's read a book about wine. It's not a tenable position.
If anyone is interested in how the great Voigt domestic corner horn is actually constructed, it's complexity and operating method, you need only google 'Secrets of the Voigt Speaker.' There you will find unique pictures, never before published, showing the construction of these incredible speakers.
The aim of our work, which has cost us a lot of time, money and effort, is to get more chance for people to see and hear these speakers. Thousands of people have already read this blog, and thus knowledge of the speaker has been greatly boosted. That's our contribution to the debate. We stand by it; there is no substitute for experience. The offer to hear these speakers, originals or reproductions, still stands, all we ask is an honest and open mind.
 
I have interpolated the additional references posted by Barniboy in posts #47 and #56 using the method he suggested to me.

This will render the Reference Section [located near the end of page 2 of this thread] more comprehensive and operable for Voigt researchers.
 
The following has been extracted from the IET Archives website blog which has just gone live:
The blog details two recent deposits to the IET Archives, including the Voigt deposit. Here is the link http://www.theiet.org/forums/blog/index.cfm?forumid=7.


Paul Voigt Papers ​

Another recent addition to the IET Archives is a collection of photographs related to Paul Voigt (collection SC MSS 111/3) which joins a small collection of Voigt papers already held in the IET Archives (SC MSS 111/1-2).

Paul Voigt was born in London on 9 December 1901 and gained a Bachelor of Science degree in Engineering from UCL at the age of 21. Voigt was first employed by J E Hough Ltd in 1922 at the Edison-Bell works in London where he was employed for his specialist wireless knowledge.

By 1926 Voigt had developed the 1st British electric recording system. Many Edison Bell products were protected by patents taken out by Voigt. After the cessation of trading of Edison Bell in 1933 Voigt set up his own company called Voigt Patents, based in Sydenham, London, and the company's 'Domestic Corner Horn' was released in 1934.

During World War II the company's main work came from maintaining its horn speakers installed in cinemas. Voigt moved to Canada with his wife in April 1950, having previously come to an agreement with the Lowther Manufacturing Company to produce the Domestic Corner Horn under licence.

Paul Voigt died 9 February 1981. [biographical information extracted from Lowther Voigt Museum website].

The collection was generously deposited by Mr E H Stubbes, a long-term supporter of the legacy of Paul Voigt and one of the main contributors to the ‘pink fish media’ website which is dedicated to promoting the legacy of Paul Voigt. For anyone interested in finding our more about Paul Voigt here is a link to that website;

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78278.

There is very little material relating to Voigt known to survive and the most important photograph within the deposit is the photograph reproduced below which is a photograph of Voigt from the 1920’s / 1930’s.



-------------------------
Jon Cable
Assistant Archivist
The Institution of Engineering and Technology



Posted By: Jonathan Cable @ 04 July 2014 02:20 PM Archives Comments (0)


July 2, 2014
 
My international enquiries concerning information about Ida Voigt came to very little. I was unable to corroborate what I had.

However, an excellent piece of research by JON cable of IET Archives, made at my request, gave me a lead into more information. This has now been verified and I have made a new sub-section about IDA Voigt. You can view it on page 1 under Section V, ‘Schooldays and University’.
 
The thread is indebted to JOHN HOWES & BJARNE RASMUSSEN for the photos of Voigt and apparatus at the Wireless and Experimental Association. It is believed that some of these rare 1920s photos have never been published previously.

You will find a new section under the heading ‘Voigt’s Activities at Central Hall, Peckham’ on p.1 of this thread. Footnote No.18 gives details of some history of these photos.

Possession of the photos led me to do some research. This resulted in additional information. You will find this on p.1. and also in the References Section.

I have taken some photos of how Central Hall looks nowadays. I am still endeavouring to get a photo of the Central Hall auditorium- so far with no success. I have, however, seen it. It is as it was in the 1920s when Voigt carried out his demonstrations there, apart from the new furnishings.
 
I have uploaded a long and important letter from Voigt to Thomson of the IEE (as this institute then was titled) dated 12 January 1973 concerning Alan Blumlein, for whom Voigt had great respect.

The letter was sent from Canada, and is reproduced by kind permission of IET. It contains a wealth of autobiographical information in Voigt’s own words.

Unfortunately, pages 2-6 (inclusive) are missing. I have inserted pages 2-6 of the letter of 21 September 1957 in the interim while I explore the possibility of retrieving the missing pages.

You will find the letter in APPENDIX 2 located at the end of page 2 of this thread.

I have revised the appendices, and hope to continue with more.
 
This is a fascinating thread, thank you for your efforts. I really enjoyed reading the letter, very amusing at points.

I have heard a pair of Voigt's corner horns (no H) and liked them. On measuring them both physically they were different in some areas, mainly in the horn flare ,which has put me off building a pair until I can visit the owner again and examine further and hopefully find some more to prod around in.

Thanks again.
 
Dear Mr. Mears

Thanks for your kind remarks. I am glad that you have benefited from the thread. It is far from complete!

Before you decide to build a pair of Voigt corner horns I would strongly suggest that you hear one (1) Voigt corner horn (one ONLY) via a top quality system playing MONO records through a mono cartridge.

I would have thought that the driver used in a DCH would make a substantial difference to the end result- probably as much or more than the particular version of the cabinet.

There are people around who believe that Voigt DCH horns are ideal when used for stereo. It is an open question whether Voigt, himself, would have agreed.

The DCH was designed by Voigt for mono reproduction. He never carried out his intended experiments in Canada with respect to ascertaining the suitability of the speaker for stereo.

Although I am second to none in my admiration for Paul Voigt and his achievements, I would not contemplate owning one (1) Voigt DCH even if fitted with the best driver now being manufactured (much less two (2) for stereo reproduction) though I am of the opinion that one (1) would be probably near ideal for playing mono records.

I wish you well in your endeavour to recreate this important item of audio history.
 
CORRECTION: pages 2-6 (inclusive) of the original letter dated 12 January 1973 given in APPENDIX 2 were from another letter and incorrect.

I have now inserted the correct pages 2-6 [see APPENDIX 2 on p.2 of this thread].

Apologies to those who have already read the entire letter. Please re read at least pages 2-6. You will then discover a lot of further information.
 
I have just received permission from the Governors of Dulwich College
to use more material pertaining to Voigt from their archives.

Watch this space.
 
All pages of the long letter from Voigt (APPENDIX 2) on p.2 of this thread have now been enhanced to make the typescript more legible.
 
I have now added a TABLE OF CONTENTS to Appendix 2 and a new letter.
The letter is the text of a tape recording, played in Voigt's absence at a meeting of the British Sound Recording Association.

To see the letter and further information please go to the foot of Page 2 of this thread, APPENDIX 2.
 
A new Appendix has now been started containing the first document from the Dulwich College Archives. The new Appendix 3 can be viewed as the currently final item on page 2 of this thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top