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P.G.A.H. VOIGT: A Great Audio Inventor

The photos have now been published, along with an explanation. ''itshifi blogspot''
Hope some people find it worthwhile. We will now turn our attention to arranging detailed plans, which will be offered free. It won't be until next year, because it will cost money to pay a draughtsman, and this project has already eaten-up my pocket money.
 
"Stereo imagery, well recorded, can only be well reproduced using highly directional speakers. This the Voigt corner horn certainly is not."

Wrong, wrong, so wrong.

Highly directional speakers are not adequate for mono or stereo recordings, that is probably the main reason why almost all modern loudspeakers sound like crap.

Natural reproduction /stereo or mono/ can only be obtained with either controlled directivity horns or true omnidirectionals.

Regards
 
Hearing the Voight Corner Horn at the Gramophone Exchange in Wardour St London many many years ago, in mono started me off into Hi-Fi , however I prefer modern speakers. Have heard the Voights in stereo a few years ago at a audio show, John howe was manufacturing them.
 
adisson100 said:
"Stereo imagery, well recorded, can only be well reproduced using highly directional speakers. This the Voigt corner horn certainly is not."

Wrong, wrong, so wrong.

Highly directional speakers are not adequate for mono or stereo recordings, that is probably the main reason why almost all modern loudspeakers sound like crap.

Natural reproduction /stereo or mono/ can only be obtained with either controlled directivity horns or true omnidirectionals.

Regards
Click to expand...

IMO absolute nonsense. Best sound today comes from mch SACD or Blue Ray preferably via TLS speakers. properly setup not the ITU unlistenable nonsense.
 
adisson100 said:
"Stereo imagery, well recorded, can only be well reproduced using highly directional speakers. This the Voigt corner horn certainly is not."

Wrong, wrong, so wrong.

Highly directional speakers are not adequate for mono or stereo recordings, that is probably the main reason why almost all modern loudspeakers sound like crap.

Natural reproduction /stereo or mono/ can only be obtained with either controlled directivity horns or true omnidirectionals.

Regards
Click to expand...

.I do not agree Best sound today comes from mch SACD or Blue Ray preferably via TLS speakers especially at the front .
 
The one thing we can agree on is that tastes in speakers differ vastly. In that sense we can probably only agree to, gently disagree.
To my ears a pair of Voigts give a lovely stereo image. There will presumably be those who feel otherwise.. That's the nature of our hobby.....plenty to keep us all occupied. Leaving personal taste to one side, learning about our partly forgotten past is no bad thing. I am repeatedly surprised by what past designers actually achieved; And I pay tribure here to what Eguth has achieved with his research, which is surely important. Lots of people can contribute to this 'audio archaeology.'
 
paskinn said:
The one thing we can agree on is that tastes in speakers differ vastly. In that sense we can probably only agree to, gently disagree.
To my ears a pair of Voigts give a lovely stereo image. There will presumably be those who feel otherwise.. That's the nature of our hobby.....plenty to keep us all occupied. Leaving personal taste to one side, learning about our partly forgotten past is no bad thing. I am repeatedly surprised by what past designers actually achieved; And I pay tribure here to what Eguth has achieved with his research, which is surely important. Lots of people can contribute to this 'audio archaeology.'
Click to expand...

I quite agree, as an ex lowther user i always found they worked best off axis, using a solid reflector balances up the higer powered lowthers nicely in my view
I have tried every direction in the past.. Mostley back horns and open baffles
I think in many ways really high quality is a thing of the past,
The really top valves where made in the early 30's in my view too.
 
In an effort to unpick some lack of clarity re: (subjective) impressions of the Voigt corner horn I offer the following scenarios with regard to what we are actually listening to and talking about:

1) One (1) corner horn playing a mono record (a single corner horn), located in one front corner of the room.
.
2) Two (2) corner horns playing a mono record, one in both front corners of the room.

(1) is what Voigt designed the corner horn to do.

Unless the listening room has been designed, specifically, with corners of the room ideally located for stereo when the horns are in the corners (2) (as they must be to operate the Voigt speakers) they will not be in an ideal location. This would have applied even if both corner horns had been modified so as to narrow the dispersion and be capable of good imaging.

Re: (2) the sound of the mono recording is compromised. What is produced is two mono sound sources melding into one image. That is, perhaps, properly described as ‘dual mono’, not mono; not true mono.

I shall refrain from giving my own opinion of how best to utilise the original versions of the Voigt corner horns.

I can confirm, however, that I have heard original versions, manufactured by Voigt, playing not only examples (1) and (2) but also:

3) one (1) corner horn playing a stereo record, and
4) two (2) corner horns playing a stereo record.

There is no doubt that improving the cabinet, via better construction techniques and/or better materials (e.g., best grade ply- Voigt used cheap grades), or upgrading drivers (Voxativ, for example) will produce a better sound.

Be that as it may, the resulting sound from such upgrades is not that of the original. If you are going for a replica you have to decide whether;

A.You want a reproduction speaker as close as possible to the original (s) (warts and all); or

B.you want the best possible upgraded version.

C. You also need to decide which original version you want to copy. Voigt changed and improved the corner horn from time to time.

I shall refrain from stating my opinion on the best choice (one or the other or neither) or whether either is a mistake- if you are interested in the best possible sound obtainable- or a much better sound than any Voigt corner horn or horns- at a much lower cost.

No doubt you will have your own opinion(s). Don’t we all!
 
Having spent too much of my academic years studying concepts such as Wittgenstein's analysis of the many meanings of the word 'same', I can see little point in some endless debate . Obviously a speaker built in 2013 is not, in some senses, 'the same' as one built in 1934. But then a speaker built in 1934 will not, by some criteria, be 'the same' in 2013 either.
Suffice it to say that we worked very hard to achieve accuracy, where the Voigt design evolved (very little really, apart from the length of the 'sounding board') we tended to later examples.
If you know of some aspect of the build which is inaccurate, please let me know. If not, we can leave philosophical ponderings for another occasion.
The issue of how a Voigt speaker is used, is a separate subject, and entirely a matter for the people using them. If you want to listen to a Voigt in mono, fine; if someone else wants to use them for stereo..their choice. I doubt that they need either 'Eguth' or 'paskinn' to tell them what to think. This is a hobby, not a rule book.
Our aim has been to raise interest in a great speaker which has been neglected. This thread has become a bit too 'sour' for that aim to be met. So I won't be contributing again. A new website with more details, pics and so on will appear shortly.
 
paskinn

“…Having spent too much of my academic years studying concepts such as Wittgenstein's analysis of the many meanings of the word 'same', I can see little point in some endless debate …”

You confuse your philosophical ‘ponderings’ with the matters that posters other than yourself wish to discuss.
 
Having heard Domestic Voight horns New and original. I can say they are one of my favourite speakers. I heard them at John Howes, Paskinns and Paul Messengers. All with stereo recordings. The imaging was spot on and they sounded very natural and smooth. Perhaps not the most dynamic speaker but They sounded great and I would be happy with a pair. Even my wife likes them but then her business is to do with anything 1940's-50's.

I seem to have lost the plot with this thread. Theres lots of talk about which is right or wrong. Voight horns need to be heard in a domestic environment. The pair I heard at the Whittlebury hall show sounded awful which I think has more to do with the room interaction as they ate designed to couple with room corners.

eguth, you need to get yourself a pair.
 
addict

As usual, with your generous self, you are being generous.

Thanks for the suggestion that I get a pair. I already have a rather large Voigt quarter-wave pipe that I built myself. Any Voigt corner horns in addition will have to be bolted to the ceiling corners.

At our present rate of progress, in this section of the thread, someone will soon propose using 4 corner horns- and (eventually) 8; (4 in the corners on the floor and another 4 in the ceiling corners).

Someone will no doubt prefer this to only two for stereo- and urge us to run around the country to hear how wonderful they are used in this way.
 
eguth said:
addict

As usual, with your generous self, you are being generous.

Thanks for the suggestion that I get a pair. I already have a rather large Voigt quarter-wave pipe that I built myself. Any Voigt corner horns in addition will have to be bolted to the ceiling corners.

At our present rate of progress, in this section of the thread, someone will soon propose using 4 corner horns- and (eventually) 8; (4 in the corners on the floor and another 4 in the ceiling corners).

Someone will no doubt prefer this to only two for stereo- and urge us to run around the country to hear how wonderful they are used in this way.
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Surround sound voight horns! Nah. I'll stick to a stereo pair. You should get the train down to hastings and I'll pick you up as I did when I took you to see John.
 
Addict

Are you saying this:

“…Surround sound voight horns! Nah. I'll stick to a stereo pair…”

-without even having heard 8, 6 or even a measly 4 corner horns in mono and stereo?

There is nothing wrong with your preferences. I expect someone will dissagree with them.
 
paskinn said:
The one thing we can agree on is that tastes in speakers differ vastly. In that sense we can probably only agree to, gently disagree.
To my ears a pair of Voigts give a lovely stereo image. There will presumably be those who feel otherwise.. That's the nature of our hobby.....plenty to keep us all occupied. Leaving personal taste to one side, learning about our partly forgotten past is no bad thing. I am repeatedly surprised by what past designers actually achieved; And I pay tribure here to what Eguth has achieved with his research, which is surely important. Lots of people can contribute to this 'audio archaeology.'
Click to expand...

Quite correct. But, perhaps unfortunately, our hobby is not one in which personal taste can be left on one side, certainly when it comes to speakers. And from the experiences of friends, tastes do change with time it would seem. Which must make me some sort of stick-in-the-mud for I have enjoyed my Autographs since 1967 and despite having heard many other designs in the meantime, would never change them. Never.

Richard.
 
Richard C.

Interesting. But have you heard the Voigt corner horn? In a domestic setting? Playing mono (1 horn) or stereo (i.e. with 2 horns)? I have; 1 playing mono and 2 horns playing mono and stereo.

Please don’t think that I am pressurising you to do so. Although attempts have been made to put pressure in this direction (in my direction), I can tell you that someone would have an uphill battle trying to persuade me to walk across the road to hear 2 Voigt corner horns playing ‘stereo’ again- let alone go all the way to Hastings to get such a thrill. There ARE limits to my time and patience! Its not that I think they sound bad... just that they do not do stereo nearly as well as 'n' number of other speakers, both modern and vintage that I have heard, in my opinion.

I’d be interested in hearing a Tannoy Autograph (or two)!

Your comments remind me of my own opinion that many speaker owners do become attached and satisfied with the speakers they have- myself included. If not, they would change them; or become perpetual speaker builders- some of whom seem to be in a perpetual state of flux.
 
"Although attempts have been made in this direction (in my direction), I can tell you that someone would have an uphill battle trying to persuade me to walk across the road to hear 2 Voigt corner horns playing ‘stereo’- let alone go all the way to Hastings to get such a thrill."

No pressure just thought you may have been interested to have a listen. As you did when I picked you up from Tunbridge Wells to introduce you to John where you heard 2 Domestic Voight horns in Stereo.

Its the same train line and your more then welcome.
 
Thanks but I think I have made my position clear.

What I heard, (in addition to 2 Voigt horns in stereo)- and I note that you do not mention this- was one (1) Voigt corner horn playing in MONO. This was much the best performance on that day- when playing a mono record. Not surprising since this is what Voigt designed the corner horn to do, and to fill the room with dispersed sound. Voigt did know what he was doing!

As you know, there is more than one speaker that was invented or made by Voigt. I would be interested in hearing some of these.

In the meantime I will reveal a secret…

…I have absolutely no intention of ever constructing Voigt corner horns to order in order to sell them…

There are a large number of plans and designs for horns that I have collected over the years. I have only built one of them -a Voigt design- though I have another (modern) horn integrated into my system along with the Voigt.

My own speakers have not changed very much since 1969. I have modified and upgraded aspects of them. Concrete- lined cabinets are my material of choice. This is much, much less expensive than either marine ply or birch ply and I believe does the job as well- or better.

My speakers are my own design based, in part, on the work of Voigt and others. I have already invited addict to listen to these many moons ago, and he has shown about as much interest in doing so as I have done in hearing 2 corner horns in stereo again.

Anyone interested in horns could do much worse than have a look/listen to pfm’s speedysteve1’s DIY horns. These are a first rate piece of innovation. I have not yet had the pleasure of hearing them. They are the most interesting design I have come across in many years.

By the way; I think that discussion of Voigt’s designs in relation to other designs – old or modern ones- is eminently suitable for and relevant to this thread, and I would encourage a continuation of this and other topics discussed here related to Voigt.
 
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