I doubt it. I don't think that they can establish their position until Charlie shuffles off and William takes the crown unless something changes dramatically. In fact they might as well wait for me to become king.
Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+22)?
- Thread starter TheDecameron
- Start date
- Status
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Once again, I see a perfect description of The EU Project masquerading as one of the movement to leave that project.
The EU Project is an entirely fundamentalist, ideological project that has only one direction, one objective, and will brook no dissent.
Brexit is not an ideology, and it is certainly not a religion, less still fundamentalist, as you yourself illustrate when you acknowledge that different people want different things. To some, I would hope relatively few, it may well be a manifestation of a form of ugly ethnic nationalism, as its detractors are always so quick to claim for all of its supporters. Others - and this would include its detractors on the left - see the EU as neoliberal construct antithetical to their own ideological utopian visions, whilst some see it variously as a Franco-German or purely German mercantilist operation which coldly sacrifices the periphery to the enrichment the centre and around which corruption, elitism and even oligarchism are rife and the democractic deficit is yawning and very deliberate, whilst some percieve a cold technocracy obsessed with rules and the homogenisation of distinct cultures. To those latter broad coalitions leaving the EU is both a moral and a philosophical imperative.
Wrong. Not true at all.
It is to some. Look at Boris and his "do or die". That's not philosophy. That's absolutism.
So you would hope. Experiemce tells me otherwise. It's not relatively few. It's a lot more than you would hope.
There are about as meany people who believe this as can fit on the head of a pin. Most Brexit supporters don't know what this sentence means. There's one person in 60 million who does. I think you will find that his name is Jeremy.
Broad coalitions? There's only 2 people who believe this in the whole of the UK and one of them's you. Can't you just pick up the phone to the other bloke?
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
et,
The EU is so awful that even those countries previously under communist control and who have prospered from being a member, nor those with populist Governments want to stay members.
I assume you're looking forward to a hard-Brexit under a Johnson Government with relish?
You'll have a cabinet who hate the EU as music as you do.
Stephen
The EU is so awful that even those countries previously under communist control and who have prospered from being a member, nor those with populist Governments want to stay members.
I assume you're looking forward to a hard-Brexit under a Johnson Government with relish?
You'll have a cabinet who hate the EU as music as you do.
Stephen
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Pretty much how I see the Conservative Government and its hinterland. Couldn’t have articulated it better.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Fair enough. I think that a Johnson (or Hunt) Conservative government would be far more dangerous than merely ideological.
A Corbyn one would be ideological and dangerous.
A Corbyn one would be ideological and dangerous.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Stephen, that needs tidying up a bit.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
I don't disagree. Never post after a 3 hour meeting about buildings.
What I meant to say was ...
If the EU is so awful, how come those countries previously under communist control (and who have prospered from being a member) as well as those with populist Governments want to stay members?
And the important bit.
I assume you're looking forward to a hard-Brexit under a Johnson Government with relish?
You'll have a cabinet who hate the EU as music as you do.
Stephen
Seanm
pfm Member
Very reasonable plan. Extremely moderate party. Workable.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lead-unity-government-to-halt-brexit-ed-davey
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lead-unity-government-to-halt-brexit-ed-davey
jackbarron
Chelsea, London
It's interesting. Ed Davey hasn't yet spoken to Yvette Cooper or Hilary Benn yet about one of them being the head of a government of national unity. This would apparently oversee a second referendum, dissolve parliament and hold a general election.
I'll still be voting Green though.
Jack
Last edited:
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I thought so, just thought I ought to check first.
In answer to your first point, because as members they have prospered from being net beneficiaries of EU funds/because they don't want to lose those benefits/because the mugging that the EU has handed out to one of the EU's top economies and a net contributor to the EU has frightened them shitless/because they think they can change it by staying in and ignoring it.
In answer to your second question, another question: Why? I can't stand Johnson.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Do I detect sarcasm Sean? Jeremy isn’t in the same league as Benn and Cooper. We’re either of them leading Labour, we’d be in a far better place right now.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Fair enough. But even the French and Italian populists don’t want to leave the EU.
As for Johnson, Because, apparently, he will give you the Brexit you voted for.
You should be ecstatic, surely?
Stephen
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I think the Italian populists (the government) are more ambitious than that, they're setting out to destroy it from within.
The French populists aren't in government, but the elitists (who are) don't want to destroy it, they're quite keen to own it.
Do I detect the merest whiff of sarcasm in your final point, Stephen?
Seanm
pfm Member
Indeed: so accomplished are Benn and Cooper in the art of politics that they are able to remain top trumps in every centrist fantasy football league without going to the bother of developing a strategic vision, winning support, or even out-manoeuvring their enemies in their own party.
I am 100% certain that were Cooper and Benn leading Labour we would be out of the EU by now, on May's sh___y terms or worse, and May would be overseeing her sadistic social care plans, Hostile Environment 2.0, and preparations for war in Iran, with the rest of her term in the bank and another to look forward to. The natural born instincts of these people compel them to help out the right in moments of crisis, and fold. It's not their fault, it's just what they do, because their heads are full of mushy ideas about national unity, and they don't understand that the right don't care about any of that and will just carry on dismantling the country around them until someone forces them to stop. You're really lucky to have an engaged Labour membership that recognises the difference between efficient administrators with nice speaking voices and actual politicians.
sean99
pfm Member
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I agree. I think Brexit is a pathology.
Interesting. So you think brexit is the scientific study of the causes and effects of a disease?
I disagree. I think that it is a self-immunisation from the disease. The EU is the pathogen, one that has acted by subterfuge, appearing to benefit the host, but actually quietly infiltrating its immune systems in preparation to destroying it.
Brexit is a rejection of that pathogen.
However, I think that what you really meant is that you think that brexit is a pathological condition. But then your metaphorical construct wouldn't have worked.
Beware. You have been infected...
- Status