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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+2)?

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Buntobox, Feb 5, 2018.

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  1. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    I don't know about the rest of Europe but I'm certain the political mess in the UK is entirely the making of a callous Tory government, full of incompetent clowns like Boris Johnson and david Davis.
     
  2. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    *Sigh* If only we could go back to Europe before the EU. How it used to be.

    No untold human misery then.

    No German leaders with worrying policies on immigrants and foreigners. Oh no.

    The EU ruined everything!
     
    SteveS1, wacko and stephen bennett like this.
  3. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Can the EU be defended without resorting to myths like the Greeks doing it to themselves, Merkel being generous to refugees etc.? So much on both sides sheer wish fulfilment, it’s no wonder attitudes aren’t shifting.
     
  4. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    Why is May being used as a retort to someone criticising Merkel?
     
  5. HairyHaggis

    HairyHaggis <((((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.•´¯`•...¸><((((º>¸.

    probably not. the error on the part of the eu was that of allowing greece entry into the eurozone. that should not have happened when it did. the history of the greek economy prior to 2001 is there to be read. i agree to a large extent with what varoufakis says and writes subsequent to that, but the greek economy at that time was in severe imbalance to the rest of the eurozone
     
  6. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    You may support Brexit but you usually have better arguments than that. The immigration crisis in Europe has almost nothing to do with the EU (btw what was your real world alternative to Germany letting them in ? ) and everything to do with USA illegal wars on Iraq=>Syria and Libya. USA should be sent a $10 billion bill for it.
    It is ridiculous to claim that Greek governments are not primarily to blame for the Greek debt crisis: they were not naive children in the sweet shop were they ? And the Italian Government is primarily responsible for southern Italy, in the same way the UK Govt is for long-term areas of deprivation in the UK.
     
    SteveS1 likes this.
  7. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    Agreed on an pure economic assessment. But that would ignore the vast debt Europe has to the cradle of its civilisation and Greece is a relatively small country. Perhaps they should have been asked not to break borrowing limits like naughty children but then you would have complained about interference.
    Many if not all ex-Warsaw Pact countries were also allowed in for political reasons and some have done better than others.
     
  8. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    Plus the EU is actively working in Libya. I think you will find it will be working far more effectively than the Italians or Greeks working separately themselves. https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage_en/19163/EU-Libya relations

    It is actually reducing migrants, albeit at a human cost http://www.dw.com/en/un-eu-cooperat...-unimaginable-horrors-for-migrants/a-41380660

    But I suppose the reduction will most please Brexitiers. Doubt they'll bother to read up about it, though.
     
  9. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Both articles paint a horrific picture of EU priorities.
     
  10. wacko

    wacko pfm Member

    you do have to wonder why Osbourne didn't join the family business :(
     
  11. kendo

    kendo Prussian bot

    He just couldn't paper over the cracks.
     
    HarryB likes this.
  12. notaclue

    notaclue pfm Member

    It's tricky to strike a balance when you've got the likes of Poland and Hungary and a resurgent far-right in Italy and Greece. And even liberal Scandinavia isn't reacting well.

    I'd look to blame human nature rather than the EU. Just look at what European nations got up to in Africa before the EU.

    At least EU laws and regulations mean that EU countries have handled over two million asylum claims in the last few years.

    Whereas Brexitiers like Katie Hopkins favoured gunboats.
     
  13. markvdv

    markvdv pfm Member

    Killing them indeed is the end to the problem. Shipping nuclear and other toxic waste to help their wasteprocessing economy, create local jobs while killing them, was the dutch method :)
     
  14. eternumviti

    eternumviti pfm Member

    It wasn't a matter of Germany merely 'letting them in', it was a matter of Merkel (unilaterally) saying come, we will take all of you. We can do it. Mainly, I understand, as a knee jerk reaction to being made to feel guilty on a TV programme.

    'We can do it.' I'm sorry, but I wonder how many thousands of people those words drowned in the Mediterranean.

    Setting aside whether or not this is entirely accurate, I didn't.

    His name is George, not Sharon. Why does everyone on pfm insist on calling him Osbourne?

    Who even tried to strike a balance? That would have required planning, and there wasn't any. The right is resurgent to at least some degree because the people of those countries have had immigrants foisted on them by the EU and Germany, not despite it.

    Please don't start playing the guilt card. It can never end well, and is entirely self-destructive. You and I are not our great-great-great-great (...) grandparents.

    Very noble, but at what cost to the integrity of the EU which you so admire? They forgot to ask the people (again). Look at it now. Fences on the external borders, frontiers on the internal ones, the far right resurgent. Great work, well thought through.

    Who?
     
  15. markvdv

    markvdv pfm Member

    Well EU took its time, finally Guardian can report about the fine: The EU executive has said the UK owes €2.7bn (£2.4bn) to Brussels for alleged failure to tackle customs fraud, as it launched legal action against the government.

    This isn't directly Brexit related, UK knew it was coming, everybody knew. UK isn't very good with borders.
     
  16. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    That customs fraud accusation is a good example of why UK needs to get out. It's just as easy to fudge the paperwork importing into Germany as it is UK. I import to both countries. Customs here also just stamp documentation without really giving a shit or checking it properly. I could put that the box had 50 young prostitutes in it at a purchase price of 5 shillings and they probably would not notice. The difference is Germany likes to put extra steps of garbage in the import process that have nothing to do with fraud. Just rubbish, inefficient, old-school methods, like making me pay for the 50 euro processing fee and the VAT charge in different rooms of the building. And they don't have a card reader in one of them, so it's cash only.

    Yet the EU seems to conclude that UK is the only dodgy one. It's really not true. The French get their stuff shipped into Germany, pick it up and drive it back to France. Why?

    I'd love to know what goes on in Spain, Italy and Greece. Are they examples of good import process and tax collection then?

    Big thumbs down.
     
  17. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Get out now yourself.....before it’s too late!!!
     
    kendo likes this.
  18. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    Really the government should set up companies in each EU country and import some stuff with undervalued invoices. That should put an end to that load of crap.
     
  19. richgilb

    richgilb Admonishtrator

    I'm staying, got some Guy Fawkes-esque ideas for the EU buildings.
     
  20. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    andrewd likes this.
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