advertisement


Next Labour Leader II

Status
Not open for further replies.
ks.234 said:
You have said several times in our past discussions on this topic that you’re not interested in racism in the Tory party or anywhere else, only antisemitism in the Labour Party,particular to the Labour Party ....
Click to expand...

The word “prejudiced” springs to mind.
 
Woodface said:
I expect the Tory party to be racist, I have no interest in them. I expect Labour to be better. I do sometimes feel that there is an undercurrent in 'the left' that antisemitism isn't really racism, it's a bit 'different'. Is 'weaponising anti semtism' any different from saying that people are 'playing the race card'?

This is not aimed at anyone specific just a general observation.
Click to expand...

there is anti semitism in the Labour Party which should not be tolerated and there is weaponisation of anti semitism that should not be tolerated either, they are not mutually exclusive.
 
ks.234 said:
Antisemitism is a serious problem that must be eradicated in the Labour party AND it is a problem that has be politicised by Labour’s, and Corbyn’s, enemies.

Antisemitism is not ‘a bit different’ to other forms of racism and no one within the LP has said it is. To say otherwise without evidence is wrong.

Antisemitism and other forms of racism are abhorrent to every fibre of a reasonable persons being and should be challenged wherever it exists. It should be challenged in the newspapers, on social media and down the pub. It should be challenged especially within the Labour Party precisely because we’re the Labour Party and set higher standards than others on this sort of thing. We challenge it because it exists and because we have higher expectations than elsewhere, not because it’s a particular problem to the party that is bigger or doesn’t exist elsewhere
Click to expand...

I think it's a bit more nuanced than this. Antisemitism isn't, conceptually, any different from other forms of racism. However, if a black African country such as Zimbabwe commits atrocities against its fellow countrymen, or India commits atrocities against Muslims in Kashmir, or Myanmar against the Rohynga, nobody who criticises those nations' acts gets accused of racism. Whereas criticism of Israel's activities in Palestine is often conflated with antisemitism.

I also accept that, in some cases, anti-Israeli sentiment is indeed rooted in antisemitism, but not by any means always. Which is why I say it is 'a bit more nuanced'.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think it's a bit more nuanced than this. Antisemitism isn't, conceptually, any different from other forms of racism. However, if a black African country such as Zimbabwe commits atrocities against its fellow countrymen, or India commits atrocities against Muslims in Kashmir, or Myanmar against the Rohynga, nobody who criticises those nations' acts gets accused of racism. Whereas criticism of Israel's activities in Palestine is often conflated with antisemitism.

I also accept that, in some cases, anti-Israeli sentiment is indeed rooted in antisemitism, but not by any means always. Which is why I say it is 'a bit more nuanced'.
Click to expand...
Is that true? Aung San Suu Kyi has been criticised and blamed in quite explicitly racist terms, she’s been accused of genocide, by definition a racial crime?

I don’t know enough about the IsraelPalastinian conflict to make an overall judgement on Israel’s activities, but the right of criticism of wrong doing of either side in a conflict must be maintained.
 
ks.234 said:
Is that true? Aung San Suu Kyi has been criticised and blamed in quite explicitly racist terms, she’s been accused of genocide, by definition a racial crime?

I don’t know enough about the IsraelPalastinian conflict to make an overall judgement on Israel’s activities, but the right of criticism of wrong doing of either side in a conflict must be maintained.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if we aren't at cross purposes here. If Aung San Suu Kyi is accused of racist behaviour, that doesn't make her accuser racist.

It may be that some racists jump on the bandwagon, or that some racists make racist attacks rather than legitimate criticism, but that's just simple racism. But the criticism itself isn't inherently racist.
 
ks.234 said:
Apologies, but that post is quite insulting and is nonsense. There might be individual cases, but to say that “there is an undercurrent in 'the left' that antisemitism isn't really racism,” is unsupported by evidence. To say there is an undercurrent is saying much the same as that it is systematic and institutional which is far from the truth.

To say it’s a particular problem of ‘the left’ is a lazy meaningless use of words. You said you voted for Corbyn, therefore you must be of ‘the left’ and therefore by your own reckoning you must be one of those that believes that antisemitism isn’t really racism.

Besides, show me one example, yourself excepted of someone of the ’left’ who has expressed the opinion that antisemitism isn’t racism.

Antisemitism is a serious problem that must be eradicated in the Labour party AND it is a problem that has be politicised by Labour’s, and Corbyn’s, enemies.

Antisemitism is not ‘a bit different’ to other forms of racism and no one within the LP has said it is. To say otherwise without evidence is wrong.

Antisemitism and other forms of racism are abhorrent to every fibre of a reasonable persons being and should be challenged wherever it exists. It should be challenged in the newspapers, on social media and down the pub. It should be challenged especially within the Labour Party precisely because we’re the Labour Party and set higher standards than others on this sort of thing. We challenge it because it exists and because we have higher expectations than elsewhere, not because it’s a particular problem to the party that is bigger or doesn’t exist elsewhere
Click to expand...
Has anyone ever used the term 'weaponised racism'? Or 'politicised racism'? I think I raise a fair point. You disagree, I am not insulted.

I voted Labour, despite Corbyn not because of him.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think it's a bit more nuanced than this. Antisemitism isn't, conceptually, any different from other forms of racism. However, if a black African country such as Zimbabwe commits atrocities against its fellow countrymen, or India commits atrocities against Muslims in Kashmir, or Myanmar against the Rohynga, nobody who criticises those nations' acts gets accused of racism. Whereas criticism of Israel's activities in Palestine is often conflated with antisemitism.

I also accept that, in some cases, anti-Israeli sentiment is indeed rooted in antisemitism, but not by any means always. Which is why I say it is 'a bit more nuanced'.
Click to expand...
You could say the same thing about all forms of racism. Criticism of certain African republics can often be veiled forms of racism.
 
Woodface said:
Has anyone ever used the term 'weaponised racism'? Or 'politicised racism'? I think I raise a fair point. You disagree, I am not insulted.

I voted Labour, despite Corbyn not because of him.
Click to expand...
Yes
Woodface said:
I expect the Tory party to be racist, I have no interest in them. I expect Labour to be better. I do sometimes feel that there is an undercurrent in 'the left' that antisemitism isn't really racism, it's a bit 'different'. Is 'weaponising anti semtism' any different from saying that people are 'playing the race card'?

This is not aimed at anyone specific just a general observation.
Click to expand...
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I'm not sure if we aren't at cross purposes here. If Aung San Suu Kyi is accused of racist behaviour, that doesn't make her accuser racist.

It may be that some racists jump on the bandwagon, or that some racists make racist attacks rather than legitimate criticism, but that's just simple racism. But the criticism itself isn't inherently racist.
Click to expand...
Apologies. Misread you. I’ll do penance by inflicting another pint of summer lightening on myself. Filthy flagaratory stuff that it is
 
Unite endorse RLB as leader and Burgon as deputy.
Obviously, the period of reflection has had a great influence on their executive.
 
Will Starmer change and become the charmer?
Will the members pick Nandy as fine and dandy?
Or is Long-Bailey the chosen one we will see daily?

I need to get a life!
 
The only Labour government in recent times was Tory lite.
Has it occurred to anyone in the LP or on PFM, that the uk public do not want a socialist government?
 
Woodface said:
Who looks at Burgon & thinks, "yep, he's the one for me".
Click to expand...

I do. A great MP - do you know him? Obviously he's young but won't go around undermining the Party like Watson did at every opportunity. His uncle was my MP and he was a great asset too...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top