New budget Naim.

[Mick P]

Has that really changed much / at all? I grew up in a typical semi and with parents who a) had hearing like a bloody bat, b) utterly detested the music I listened to (T. Rex, Hawkwind, punk / new-wave etc), and c) went to bed far earlier than I did when I was a teen. Even in that context I got great enjoyment out of a big old 50s Bush valve radiogram my grandparents had given me and later my first proper stereo (Lenco, Quad, JR149s) that I landed when I was 15. I've never really aspired to 'very loud' though, it was quality I was after right from the start - I just wanted to hear what was happening properly. Typical little computer speakers really wouldn't have done it for me. The old radiogram had a pair of 10" Celestion drivers in it so kicked out a nice big warm sound as I remember it.

The thing that amazes me is that things have gone so far in the direction they have. I just don't understand it. I'd have thought the truly amazing advances in source components (iPhones, iPods, computers, Spotify etc etc) would have made it all so much easier to the extent everyone would have a good system, e.g. all a kid needs now is a nice amp and speakers (or active speakers). They already have the source components. It should have been easy pickings for the audio industry as the whole complexity of arms, cartridges, alignment, tracking weight, turntable siting, record cleaning etc etc is no longer relevant to anyone but the true record collector.

Tony

Breed yourself a couple of kids and then you will know how they think.

Kids do not want to sit in an arm chair with a pair of speakers forming an equilateral triangle. They do not want shelves full of LPs and CDs, as far as they are concerned it is all moron territory. The thought of black boxes connected up with cables is just laughable. It is all pipe and slipper stuff to them.

My teenage grandchildren just want an Ipad, download the music and listen to it on the move - that's it job done.

Mick

 

[Robert]

I have to be honest. As I spend maybe nine months of the year travelling, and all I have is an iPod, some headphones and a car system, I really don't miss it much.

Sure it's nice to have. But there's an awful lot of other temptations out there and weren't around when we were teenagers.

For me the hifi industry needs to make better products, not ever more expensive ones.

I think we're all just getting old and weary Mike.

I don't do the travelling but I do regularly spend a month or two with the main system mothballed, mostly because I enjoy restoring and playing with neat little systems which dispense with all of the sonic fireworks and just do the basics right, in varying ways.

I spent the past two months mostly listening via Spotify and an old Marantz 25w receiver and 'bookshelf' AR4xa from the mid 70s. Less scale, less ultimate transparency, a bit coloured, but more than competent enough to put a smile on the face and entertain hugely. I'm increasingly drawn to this sort of system and don't quite know why. Perhaps fatigue from playing with so much expensive kit over the years. Perhaps there comes a point where you can consider hi-fi exploration 'done' and nothing really surprises anymore.

 

[Rack Kit]

Tony

Breed yourself a couple of kids and then you will know how they think.

Kids do not want to sit in an arm chair with a pair of speakers forming an equilateral triangle. They do not want shelves full of LPs and CDs, as far as they are concerned it is all moron territory. The thought of black boxes connected up with cables is just laughable. It is all pipe and slipper stuff to them.

My teenage grandchildren just want an Ipad, download the music and listen to it on the move - that's it job done.

Mick

Pretty much spot on Mick P.

 

[Robert]

Tony

Breed yourself a couple of kids and then you will know how they think.

Kids do not want to sit in an arm chair with a pair of speakers forming an equilateral triangle. They do not want shelves full of LPs and CDs, as far as they are concerned it is all moron territory. The thought of black boxes connected up with cables is just laughable. It is all pipe and slipper stuff to them.

My teenage grandchildren just want an Ipad, download the music and listen to it on the move - that's it job done.

Mick

Mick, you mean us old farts should just let it go, because the kids know what they want?

 

[Mick P]

Mick, you mean us old farts should just let it go, because the kids know what they want?

Robert

Let me put it this way, I had a friend visit me a couple of years ago who happens to be a police officer.

He told me very bluntly, if my house was burgled, the last thing they would nick would be the hifi, it would not be worth tuppence on the streets. He couldn't even remember the last time anyone reported it stolen. Once we old farts have met our maker, it will all end up as land fill.

Regards

Mick

 

[Mike Reed]

There speaks a man that has never designed his own nuclear fusion reactor before

There's a chippy near Sizewell B in Suffolk that majors in nuclear fission chips. (coat, my, I'll and get)

 

[abbydog]

Made me laugh... (-:

 

[Julf]

There's a chippy near Sizewell B in Suffolk that majors in nuclear fission chips. (coat, my, I'll and get)

Tell him to use less tabasco! Now, where is my goat....?

 

[Tony L]

Kids do not want to sit in an arm chair with a pair of speakers forming an equilateral triangle. They do not want shelves full of LPs and CDs, as far as they are concerned it is all moron territory. The thought of black boxes connected up with cables is just laughable. It is all pipe and slipper stuff to them.

My teenage grandchildren just want an Ipad, download the music and listen to it on the move - that's it job done.

So, by your reckoning Naim are toast? By the time they've sold their latest £120k amp to the odd ultra-rich old fool sitting in the perfect triangle formed by his armchair it's game over? This doesn't align to what you were saying earlier in the thread!

PS I'm a little more optimistic as I suspect the headphone thing is a trend and folk will eventually once again realise that filling a whole room with music so others can enjoy and share it is A Very Good Thing.

 

[Robert]

Robert

Let me put it this way, I had a friend visit me a couple of years ago who happens to be a police officer.

He told me very bluntly, if my house was burgled, the last thing they would nick would be the hifi, it would not be worth tuppence on the streets. He couldn't even remember the last time anyone reported it stolen. Once we old farts have met our maker, it will all end up as land fill.

Regards

Mick

Yes I think you're right, Mick.

Perhaps the old hi-fi farts need to live for the moment and accept their looming extinction with good grace.

 

[Mick P]

So, by your reckoning Naim are toast? By the time they've sold their latest £120k amp to the odd ultra-rich old fool sitting in the perfect triangle formed by his armchair it's game over? This doesn't align to what you were saying earlier in the thread!

Tony

I don't have a clue what,s going to happen to the hifi market, but I expect that Naim will do better than most. I think that over the last 20 years, fewer but more expensive stuff seems to be sold and that trend will continue.

However, instead of having a go at me, just have a chat to an average 20 yr old, hifi boxes and speakers are just moron territory to them.

You and I may sit in our arm chairs listening to music but we are a dying breed.

Mick

 

[Robert]

Will audiophiles sitting the armchair with systems aligned to perfection be buying the new amp, and presumably the other products to partner it?
Assuming pre, power, power supplies, steamer and range topping Focal 'speakers we're going easily over the £0.5m mark.

Will this market consist of audiophiles as we know them?
I have my doubts.

 

[maxflinn]

There speaks a man that has never designed his own nuclear fusion reactor before

...

 

[Guest432]

Tony

Breed yourself a couple of kids and then you will know how they think.

Kids do not want to sit in an arm chair with a pair of speakers forming an equilateral triangle. They do not want shelves full of LPs and CDs, as far as they are concerned it is all moron territory. The thought of black boxes connected up with cables is just laughable. It is all pipe and slipper stuff to them.

My teenage grandchildren just want an Ipad, download the music and listen to it on the move - that's it job done.

Mick

All kids are the same, in my day it was a sony walkman tape, later years the cd walkman or minidisc and then the ipod.

once these kids grow up they'll move across to hifi, besides how many kids could even afford a Naim setup in their bedroom if they did want it.

It's quite ironic that kids with a full freq spectrum in their hearing listen to shitty mp3 where us with decrepit hearing listen to vinyl or lossless digital.

 

[abbydog]

Yep, they listen to shitty mp3 on their shitty desktop systems using their shitty dacs and shitty amps and shitty cans supplied by a thriving sector of the business that is in rude health.

And it doesn't sound at all shitty - it just ain't what you call rock'n'roll.

 

[Robert]

It's quite ironic that kids with a full freq spectrum in their hearing listen to shitty mp3 where us with decrepit hearing listen to vinyl or lossless digital.

It certainly is.
I'd venture to suggest that's because MP3 (as in iTunes+) isn't quite as shitty as we make out, and high res lossless not as superior.

 

[merlin]

Kids will eventually by buying Naim bluetooth headphones with Dacs built in that glow green.

 

[Julf]

once these kids grow up they'll move across to hifi, besides how many kids could even afford a Naim setup in their bedroom if they did want it.

I think the difference is that when these kids grow up, they won't just move across, they will also move. A number of times. And they know that. They know they won't live in the same place all their lives, but will move not just house, but quite possibly country and continent. Multiple times. Do they want boat anchors such as big speakers and heavy amps? No.

As many young, bright people (who are into music) keep telling me, "if it doesn't fit in my backpack, what good is it?".

 

[abbydog]

White now, not green anymore

 

[Tony L]

just have a chat to an average 20 yr old, hifi boxes and speakers are just moron territory to them.

I suspect it depends entirely on which 20 year old you ask. Thinking about the topic some more I realise I'm not typical at all, e.g. I went on to play in bands, I've made records, I've owned a recording studio and now own a record shop and audiophile website. I've also always surrounded myself with people with similar interests, which probably explains why so many of my friends have great systems and great music collections. I'm sure 'people like me' do exactly the same these days, I just bet the do so with a pair of Genelec active monitors or whatever, not the sort of stuff I bought. The end result is the same, quality music in the home, it's just coming from a pro-music supply-chain.

I suspect the thing that has changed is any notion that a nice hi-fi as a social status thing - most families in the (nice middle-class) area I grew up had a decent stereo, say a Technics direct drive, Marantz receiver and a pair of Ditton 15s or whatever and it was often a feature of dinner parties etc. The serious music heads will still have a good audio system, but I suspect everyone else is just vegged out in front of some large-screen TV - TV is something that has improved enormously with way more channels etc, so no need to 'fill the gaps' when there's nothing on any more.