Neumann KH 310 A and dual subwoofers ?

[h.g.]

I honestly don't have a good answer to your question

Perception of quality is of course a substantial part of what you are getting with high priced luxury goods. This varies somewhat from country to country and the perception of K&H/Neumann vs ATC is, perhaps unsurprisingly, different in Germany.

MEG is perhaps a bit different in not seeking a conventionally balanced technical performance but one that optimises some aspects of technical performance at the expense of others. A perfectly reasonable thing for a small company to do but it will reduce the size of the population that perceives high quality rather than an overpriced car/ceiling speaker design.

 

[darrenyeats]

To be fair to MEG, and I'm sure you agree h.g., flat FR and phase alignment of drivers are good things.

Having heard the 15 inch RL 901K, I also say they show the door to many fart-boxes of the moment in terms of bass extension, distortion etc. with no sub or integration needed.

Big, analogue, active, 3-ways are hard to argue with in my opinion, and I liked the sound these made.

 

[sunny]

Perfect match! Excuse me, the length, width and height of this underframe? Thank you!

 

[Roog]

Well, my monologue has come to an end and this would be the last post for this thread

I believe I managed to get the integration between the subs,monitors and the room as good as possible with the real life limitations (wife,kid,placement and etc.)

There was only one thing bugging me in the back of my mind, and that was the placement of the right speaker and the stereo image.It was good with some EQ, but somehow I was still not convinced.

So I decided to rotate the monitors with the midrange on the inwards side, and now I have much stable center image and soundstage.It's a tiny degree smaller soundstage, but sounds much more convincing.I had to do some EQ in the subs due to this, but now everything is dialed in and I am officially done

that looks very impressive @igor_xxxx I have been eyeing up a pair of KH 310’s and now you have alerted me to the 805’s as well. Can I ask whose stands did you use to raise them?

 

[AndyU]

that looks very impressive @igor_xxxx I have been eyeing up a pair of KH 310’s and now you have alerted me to the 805’s as well. Can I ask whose stands did you use to raise them?

Neumann seem to be doing a fair bit of work on room integration and DSP. Have a look at their MA1 automatic monitor alignment system and microphone - it should work very well with KH310s and a KH750. I’ve a pair of KH80s coming to use with our keyboard, and the room alignment software looks worth a play even without the microphone.

https://en-de.neumann.com/ma-1

 

[Roog]

It’s great to see them being used at home, studio monitors seem get a bad wrap amongst audiophiles even though their specifications are often great and the crossovers and therefore sound are adaptable.

 

[AndyU]

It’s great to see them being used at home, studio monitors seem get a bad wrap amongst audiophiles even though their specifications are often great and the crossovers and therefore sound are adaptable.

I’ve used ATC studio monitors, or their domestic variants, at home for many years, so using another studio monitor product is a natural thing to do for me. I’ve tried the KH120s and the KH310s at home in the past, both good, but they didn’t suit my needs at the time. Mind you, I am sure there is lots of junk masquerading as “studio monitors” - there’s more to it than just throwing a couple of drive units in a ported box with a cheapo class d amp and calling it “pro”. Not to mention that “monitoring” is different from “mastering”.

 

[dreamingofwaves]

Tuga, it’s not really visible from the picture, but that is a chimney and the front of the right speaker is almost flush with the chimney.I have some space after the chimney so it’s not the actual corner of the room.

At the moment I have adjusted the treble, low mid and low end on the Neumanns to compensate for this and to me it sound great.For now I am getting used to the change, and then I fire up the Umik1 to make final adjustments.

By ear, at the moment, this is the best sound that I ever heard in my room (and much more)

I can’t hear the subwoofers, but I damn miss them when I turn them off.

It was really worth the “risk” and thanks to everyone for the contributions

Hi Igor, resurrecting this old thread, I am looking at a very similar setup, yours looks awesome.

What is your end to end setup, including the electronics like audio interfaces, DAC, AVR etc? I can't quite see from the pictures what you're using in the chain to drive the Neumanns.

Thanks!

 

[anubisgrau]

And a question from me, what is the difference between KH310A and KH310D. The price difference is substantial.

 

[s1h1]

AES3 and time alignment on the 310D

 

[AndyU]

And a question from me, what is the difference between KH310A and KH310D. The price difference is substantial.

The D has a digital input, the A is analogue. Neumann are starting to offer calibration microphones and calibration software to be used with digital monitors like the KH80 and the 750 sub. I’m not sure whether the technology has reached the 310s yet, but I am sure it will.

 

[igor_xxxx]

Hi Igor, resurrecting this old thread, I am looking at a very similar setup, yours looks awesome.

What is your end to end setup, including the electronics like audio interfaces, DAC, AVR etc? I can't quite see from the pictures what you're using in the chain to drive the Neumanns.

Thanks!

Hi,

I have the following:

Turntable -> RJM Phonoclone -> SPL Phonitor 2 -> Neumann KH750 subs -> Neumann KH310A

For digital, I have Intel NUC and Mytek 192 Dac.

Regarding the 310A vs D difference, as mentioned, it’s only the digital input and some time allignement, which I am covered if needed via the digital inputs from the subs.

As of today I also have the Neumann MA1 callibration mic, so I will be playing with a full system callibration via their software.

And since I changed a bit the concept (dual mono subs and etc), here is a current picture

 

[dreamingofwaves]

Hi,

I have the following:

Turntable -> RJM Phonoclone -> SPL Phonitor 2 -> Neumann KH750 subs -> Neumann KH310A

For digital, I have Intel NUC and Mytek 192 Dac.

Regarding the 310A vs D difference, as mentioned, it’s only the digital input and some time allignement, which I am covered if needed via the digital inputs from the subs.

As of today I also have the Neumann MA1 callibration mic, so I will be playing with a full system callibration via their software.

And since I changed a bit the concept (dual mono subs and etc), here is a current picture

Brilliant to see the evolution! Thank you.

A couple more questions - what was the thinking behind moving the subs to the floor?

Also, is it possible to use a different calibration mic other than the MA 1? A Superlux ECM999 is a fraction of the price, clearly it won't be as good, is it good enough?

 

[igor_xxxx]

A couple more questions - what was the thinking behind moving the subs to the floor?

I would say there were couple reasons for this, the main ones being:

1) I wanted to try the according to Neumann their "recommended" operation mode for 2 subs - sending both channels to each sub, instead of stereo (separate channels to each sub)
2) I also wanted to place the subs at their "recommended" locations, ~1/4 width of the room, up to the wall (I had luck here since only those locations were possible, more or less) and also to try and separate them from being on top of the 310s
3) Last but not least, I much prefer the visual appearance (heresy, I know) with the stands and subs next to them in the room.And the wife is much much happier

Also, is it possible to use a different calibration mic other than the MA 1? A Superlux ECM999 is a fraction of the price, clearly it won't be as good, is it good enough?

The Neumann MA-1 is needed ONLY if you want to use the associated PC/Mac software for auto calibration.Up until now, I was using UMIK1 with REW for all of my calibration needs and with quite excellent success, so I would say it's not a must at all to have the MA-1.But please have in mind that you need an iPad to run the Neumann.Control app, if you want to make manual EQ and any other changes to the KH750, if you are using 3rd party mics.The PC/Mac software is only to be used with the MA-1 mic, but the iPad application is much better from user experience and features.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer

 

[AndyU]

Brilliant to see the evolution! Thank you.

A couple more questions - what was the thinking behind moving the subs to the floor?

Also, is it possible to use a different calibration mic other than the MA 1? A Superlux ECM999 is a fraction of the price, clearly it won't be as good, is it good enough?

There’s a good, longish, thread on gearspace about the MA1, the Neumann software, and the KH750. You can skim some of the negativity in the earlier posts because they apply to early versions of the software, which had some issues that were fixed.

https://gearspace.com/board/high-end/1258394-neumann-kh-750-read-before-you-buy.html

 

[AddaAudio]

I would say there were couple reasons for this, the main ones being:

1) I wanted to try the according to Neumann their "recommended" operation mode for 2 subs - sending both channels to each sub, instead of stereo (separate channels to each sub)
2) I also wanted to place the subs at their "recommended" locations, ~1/4 width of the room, up to the wall (I had luck here since only those locations were possible, more or less) and also to try and separate them from being on top of the 310s
3) Last but not least, I much prefer the visual appearance (heresy, I know) with the stands and subs next to them in the room.And the wife is much much happier



The Neumann MA-1 is needed ONLY if you want to use the associated PC/Mac software for auto calibration.Up until now, I was using UMIK1 with REW for all of my calibration needs and with quite excellent success, so I would say it's not a must at all to have the MA-1.But please have in mind that you need an iPad to run the Neumann.Control app, if you want to make manual EQ and any other changes to the KH750, if you are using 3rd party mics.The PC/Mac software is only to be used with the MA-1 mic, but the iPad application is much better from user experience and features.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer

Did you find much of a difference placing the subs on the ground - thinking of moving up to two subs but would like to put them in the array position and get some floor space back - but not if there is a cost to the sound quality.... are you still with these monitors in 2024?

 

[igor_xxxx]

Did you find much of a difference placing the subs on the ground - thinking of moving up to two subs but would like to put them in the array position and get some floor space back - but not if there is a cost to the sound quality.... are you still with these monitors in 2024?

First, please accept my apologies for the delayed answer, I was on a business trip abroad and then suffered a nasty cold (still ongoing), so I was not really checking pfm.

Now to your question, its a bit difficult to say because at the time I think I went from dual subs plus REW/Umik1 and manual calibration, to the current setup which is subs on the floor at roughly 1/4 length of the room width, with complete system calibration with the Neumann MA1 software.

I can say that I liked the “subs on the floor”placement option a bit more, but I am not sure any more if the difference was due to the MA1 software calibration, or the actual placement.I simply liked it better and continued with this placement, especially since the wife was much more happy with the looks as well

If you are investing in a similar (2 subs) setup, my suggestion would be to think about adding the MA1 in the mix and then decide which placement you like the best, I am sure you would not be unhappy with either of them.

And to your last question, I am still using them in 2024 and have no plans nor desire to change them.OK, I still lust after MEG RL901Ks, but joking aside, there is no wish for a change.

Hope some of this helps you and if you have any other questions, I am happy to help.