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Need to decide to day which speakers

9

9designs

pfm Member
In the blue corner we have the PMC Fact 8.... and in the red corner we have the Audio Vector S3 Arette..... They both are sitting in my room, slugging it out for top honours...... So options are keep one and send the other back or send both back !!!!.....

For reference the following have been heard in dealer demo's over the last year..... and the above two were my favourite.... (The Kudos could be added to the top two, but once I heard the C30, which are a bit big for my room, the C10/20 would disappoint).

Kudos C10, 20 and 30
Focal 1008be, 1028be
Neat motive 4
Wilson Benesch Arc and Square 1
Dynaudio Contour 1.4, Focus 220, X32
Audiovector S1 AG, S3AG and S3 Arette
PMC GB1, FACT 3 and 8
Spendor A5
Linn 109, Akurate 212, 242 (Plus I own Kaber, and had Keltik)
TOTEM Staff
Monitor Audio PL100, 200 and 300
B&W 804D
Aspara
KEF Reference 205/2 and 203/2
 
It would be interesting to have some thoughts on how the above compared.
I'm particularly interested in your views on the Aspara, which model was it?
 
From my notes over the year !!!!

Think the Aspara were around 3 -4K, the mid priced ones.... Sounded very good, but to me one big problem, they had a hollow "echo" in the mid, quite a strong colouration..... Exactly as I had when I once played with box stuffing and took all the wool out !!!... So they have quite a strong character. I'd ended up doing DIY on them ..... :eek:

AudioVector S1 AG = Very good, excellent treble, space and detail, bass a little weak/cold. Try with KCT to beef it up. (Hence I've now returned to try the bigger and newer spec S3's)

Focal are not for me, every time i hear them they sound to metalic, hard and clanky. G/F has some reaction, took 10 seconds to send her running from the dem room the other day..... "like someone catching their nails on the black board".

Neat, = average box speaker.

WB Arc. = Good but I was aiming higher, a little clinical, couldn't warm to them.
Square 1 = Good, tight lively, top end could get a bit coarse over time

Dynaudio Contour 1.4 = Over refined, sounded slow and lacked bite and life.
X32 = Smooth detailed, open, quite in room, tight and fast'ish. Good for the money.

PMC GB1 = Flat, enclosed no sparkle. rejected.
FACT 8 = excellent, very good top end, perhaps not as sweet as AV S1
Best by far.

Spendor = sound even, neutral, but lifeless and boring.

Linn Akurate = Akurate by name and accurate by nature, technical perfection but boring. (Needs to be active, but I don't want another 3 boxes and extra 10K bill)

Totum Staff = Thumping bass, top end wispery and papery. Nothing special.

MA PL100 = weighty bass, mid seems little distant, clean sound, didn't boogie. Need home demo.
MA PL200 = As PL100, but better progression through mid. bass was slower and pondorus compared to PL100. Update- against KEF and Fact8 sounded metalic and cold. More Hi-Fi than music.

B&W = Very matter of fact, bit boring. Safe purchase for people who want back ground music.

All this is offset against my own active Dynaudio Gemini, which I fettled over the last 17 years, and can stand up against any of the above.
 
what pair of speakers most allows you to hear the differences between recordings? (i don't mean 'detail' but difference in instrument timbre, studio acoustic, recording technique, the real nitty gritty character of say a motown record opposed to say a brian eno produced u2 album)
what ones do you seem to 'feel' an affinity too?
 
I have Audiovectors and love them, but your listening notes ('best by far') make the FACT8s look like no-brainers for you.
 
darrylfunk said:
what pair of speakers most allows you to hear the differences between recordings? (i don't mean 'detail' but difference in instrument timbre, studio acoustic, recording technique, the real nitty gritty character of say a motown record opposed to say a brian eno produced u2 album)
what ones do you seem to 'feel' an affinity too?
Click to expand...

Well this is why it's tricky, from all above I feel I "probably" have the best two, as far as you can ever know from many dealer demo's...... And that's how I'm trying to judge them, ( I read some of the "PRaT" threads !!!! :(

Now the Fact 8 has been the long term leader, heard about 4 times, mix of systems, and normally came top, though some system mis-matching on some dem's didn't work so well.... Re don't use Naim 500 system, and ironically wasn't impressed when used with Bryston. With the Linn amps they work superbly, also the Rega Osiris amp.

But I always thought from the original dem of both the AV's were a close second with the S1 Avantgarde....(See notes above) Which have now been upgrade to S1i Arette. So decided to revisit them, this time take the floor stander in the top spec, S3i Arette.

So in comparison, the S3's have the detail, insight, speed, clarity, definition, transparency and the ability to cut through "difficult recordings" .... Thinking Raising Sands here, and being able to hear the layers of information etc.

Even though you loose some of the above, the Fact 8's are a "nice" easy listen, the transmission line has proven to be no issue at all to integrate into the room...... They're cheaper, British LOL, and build is superb..... I expected, pre conceived ideas etc for them to win !!! (I've been banging the drum long enough on the Forums :D ).
But the S3's can offer more it seems.

I think it's all down to system integration, choosing the right cable etc to knit it all together, which is where the greater potential is with the Audiovector.

Bottom line they both excellent speakers, and a refreshing change from the average boring "tub thumper's"......

The 8's are on now, a final fling after with the S3's should confirm it. I hope !!!........ I leaning toward the S3's.... G/F prefers there look as well ;)
 
darrylfunk said:
what amp and source are you using?
how is your room furnished?
Click to expand...

Linn Akurate DS, Klimax Kontrol/Klimax Chakra Twin, Plus LP12/Cirkus/Ekos2/Lingo2/Tramp2/Lyra evolve 99 plus Linto phono stage.

Room at present lightly furnished, carpet and one sofa bed, will be putting some some fabric/foam on the walls in due coarse.

9D_S3.jpg


Ignore the Tunebox on top of the Kontrol, it's there while I tried out my normal speakers from the lounge.
 
Ok after a another few hours listening, this time with the LP12.... The Fact 8's like the LP12 !!!.... cleaned up their bottom end, as my LP12 has a leaner, dryer sound than the ADS.
Going back to the ADS, and switching again, the Fact 8's slightly mid/upper mid forwardness is nice and to my liking. Puts vocal more "there" in the room.
They both sound excellent, and not a lot in it, but the PMC's will cost me 1200 quid less, which I'm starting to think would allow me to try some fancy speaker cable (Using K400 or Van Damme at present) plus I could even put the Dynamik power supply in the ADS with the saving.... Source first an all that ;)....

How is my logic ?
 
9designs,

The words you've used keep pointing towards the Fact 8s.

Not sure what a forum member can add to your own very thorough and patient auditions.

Both options sound great, per you. Either way, seems like you are going to be very satisfied.
 
Loub thinks that you shouldn't be using anything more fancy than wet string. Basically it's a thread crap.

Find a dealer who can loan you some different cables to try. Choose the one that sounds more coherent than the others - if there is one that stands out as such.
 
well the acoustics of the room would worry me slightly you have by the looks of it a very hard reflective surfaces.
also having the system set up 'show style' does no favours to the sound either.
i think the pmc's may be the best choice with your amplification.
i wouldn't waste money on expensive bling cables the k400 your using should be fine and the amps are designed with it mind.

good luck.
darryl.
 
that's right - show style should be no style.....
it's funny that audiophiles often slag off pictures from studios with huge desks and speakers stuck on the back, saying that acoustically it must sound terrible and then go and set their hi fi up to 'show it off - show style'
best of out of the way preferably not in a corner if using a vinyl set up.
if you can find a nulled area were you have a bass cancellation that's an ideal place for the deck to go as less low acoustic energy will hit it.
i also think most speakers would sound slighty better toed in a tiny bit more than in the photo.
 
f you can find a nulled area were you have a bass cancellation that's an ideal place for the deck to go as less low acoustic energy will hit it
Click to expand...

I think all kit, especially turntables, benefits from being placed where the least amount of low acoustic energy will hit it. That means not tucking equipment in alcoves.

My own system is set up 'show style' but I know this is not ideal. There are plans to change this and the OP would do well to follow suit (or beat me to it even.)

I'm planning on a pair of Tannoy Turnberrys. Should the OP consider Tannoy? Using solid state amps from Linn the Tannoy Definition DC8s or 8Ts might be worth adding to the list.
 
Thanks for the comments...
Re “show style”, was more a forced situation, to the right is built in wardrobe, centre right where the record cabinet is could be used, but then the speaker cable has to get around or through the built in wardrobe, not really possible in the past with K400/600 !!!.... And expensive if I use anything more than “wet string” ;) ... Idea is to replace the current record cabinet with an open box style (Ikea cubes) .... this just happens to be at the mid reflection point along the wall...
To the left side is a window and radiator. I could put the kit between the rad and the corner, but the kit would be no further than it is now from a speaker.
Back wall is the door and couch. .....
There are too many boxes in the photo, because of running active with my other speakers, so a Tunebox and power amp will go. Plus I don’t like the tables/racks... trying to find something neater and lower.... To me solid state electronics sound pretty much the same whatever rack you use.... Argos of Audiophile !!.
The room does need more soft items, I have a stack of acoustic foam tiles from my last room, plan is to make some panels and cover them in fabric to match the cushions on the sofa (G/F task ;) ...
It’s all work in progress, but least I have the Kabers replaced now( for sale soon).... as I just place the order for some Fact 8’s in light oak. 
 
9designs,

Terrific that you've decided!

The photograph you posted was really helpful.

My walls are similar to yours and I've been happy with the 'liveness' / synergy of my room. Best to ease into treatments and not overdo it.

When do your take ownership of the Fact 8s?

- David.
 
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