I disagree completely. These terms describe our perception of the music and emotional reaction to it and to say that it's all down to our mental state at the time is to say that all systems convey the soul of the performance equally well. That clearly isn't the case. I can have two turntables sitting next to each other and one gets me singing along and pulling my heart strings while the other does not. Despite the latter having better treble, better bass and a bigger sound stage. Is my emotional state changing between sides?
Naim: Is it personal?
- Thread starter Uncle Roach
- Start date
I disagree completely. These terms describe our perception of the music and emotional reaction to it and to say that it's all down to our mental state at the time is to say that all systems convey the soul of the performance equally well. That clearly isn't the case. I can have two turntables sitting next to each other and one gets me singing along and pulling my heart strings while the other does not. Despite the latter having better treble, better bass and a bigger sound stage. Is my emotional state changing between sides?
Miss Ariel
pfm Member
Argh remember it well with Chris Frankland and his evanganical flat earth mission....Ben Sidran and the bop City album never had a clue who he was and The Crusaders were another band I had never heard of.
The AT95 walking all over the Koetsu Black was predictable...If it had been made by Linn he would have been gushing.
Heady flat earth times looking back.
zekezebra
pfm Member
I think that HiFi magazines in the 80's were very influential. The reviewers for HiFi Answers, for example, were completely in the Linn/Naim camp and for them nothing could come close.
There was one reviewer who, when testing a rival amplifier, would slot it into his Linn/Naim system and only ever seemed to play one track: Ai No Corrida by Quincy Jones. He would then compare it to the Naim amplifiers which invariably "blew the rival into the weeds".
I do believe that this type of reporting, for some readers, convinced them that it was not worth investigating other manufacturers. Couple this to the chosen HiFi dealers that were almost blackmailed by Linn to only push Linn/Naim systems.
Maybe some folk almost felt cheated by this conspiracy once they realised that there were in fact other manufacturers who made as good or even better equipment. Hence the bad feeling towards both Linn and Naim.
There was one reviewer who, when testing a rival amplifier, would slot it into his Linn/Naim system and only ever seemed to play one track: Ai No Corrida by Quincy Jones. He would then compare it to the Naim amplifiers which invariably "blew the rival into the weeds".
I do believe that this type of reporting, for some readers, convinced them that it was not worth investigating other manufacturers. Couple this to the chosen HiFi dealers that were almost blackmailed by Linn to only push Linn/Naim systems.
Maybe some folk almost felt cheated by this conspiracy once they realised that there were in fact other manufacturers who made as good or even better equipment. Hence the bad feeling towards both Linn and Naim.
narabdela
who?
A perfect analysis of the situation at the time.(imho of course).
Whether it answers the OP's question is another matter though.
gustav_errata
pfm Member
I didn't think I could possibly contribute anything to this thread but in the end I'll leave this here, valuable or not.
I'm relatively new to hi-fi. I bought my first system in 2020, which included a Naim NAP150/NAC112 pairing. I understand now this was maybe one of their worst outings, and I have since moved on, but nevermind, this won't be about amplification quality.
I landed on those Naim amps because the name came up a lot in my (pre-forums) research, and I could afford them. I didn't know about the upgrade ladder or anything. After buying and enjoying my system I started browsing forums more. I knew right away that the Naim forum wasn't for me: going further up the chain just wasn't a possibility, and that's what I saw a lot of there. PFM, on the other hand seemed more even-handed in its discussion and other brands were discussed too, so I joined.
OK, now to the point. As someone who did not know the history, who had no sense of "the company that was" vs the current incarnation, who had neither beef nor evangelism, I found that the meta-discussion around Naim is far more heated than any actual discussions about their products (Solstice excluded...). That seems like a major disconnect to me.
I felt that the majority of users who mentioned Naim products here or who answered questions simply didn't come across as evangelical fanboys or whatever. Just helpful people who enjoyed their systems from whatever Naim era, with or without mods, etc. What stood out most were the anti-Naim crowd who pounced whenever the company was discussed or who couldn't wait to make quips about stripping wall paper or tooth enamel, thus taking the discussion into the meta level. But even then, to be clear, that tends to be a limited few. Get past them and even the other critical members are perfectly reasonable in their discussion.
I'm relatively new to hi-fi. I bought my first system in 2020, which included a Naim NAP150/NAC112 pairing. I understand now this was maybe one of their worst outings, and I have since moved on, but nevermind, this won't be about amplification quality.
I landed on those Naim amps because the name came up a lot in my (pre-forums) research, and I could afford them. I didn't know about the upgrade ladder or anything. After buying and enjoying my system I started browsing forums more. I knew right away that the Naim forum wasn't for me: going further up the chain just wasn't a possibility, and that's what I saw a lot of there. PFM, on the other hand seemed more even-handed in its discussion and other brands were discussed too, so I joined.
OK, now to the point. As someone who did not know the history, who had no sense of "the company that was" vs the current incarnation, who had neither beef nor evangelism, I found that the meta-discussion around Naim is far more heated than any actual discussions about their products (Solstice excluded...). That seems like a major disconnect to me.
I felt that the majority of users who mentioned Naim products here or who answered questions simply didn't come across as evangelical fanboys or whatever. Just helpful people who enjoyed their systems from whatever Naim era, with or without mods, etc. What stood out most were the anti-Naim crowd who pounced whenever the company was discussed or who couldn't wait to make quips about stripping wall paper or tooth enamel, thus taking the discussion into the meta level. But even then, to be clear, that tends to be a limited few. Get past them and even the other critical members are perfectly reasonable in their discussion.
Good post. At the end of the day they're just another hi-fi company and people can decide whether they like their products with their ears. If not they should just move on. If they feel they are somehow 'swayed' or 'conned' by Naim's marketing etc. then that is their problem not Naim's. Accepting some responsibility for their own actions would be the best idea rather than whinging repeatedly on an Internet forum about how wronged they've been, how anyone else is wrong to enjoy the brand and conjecturing with a certain amount of hope that Naim fail as a company (which effectively is hoping lots of people lose their jobs as a result)!
Of!!!Thats something you'll never ever be accused for
Allan Probin
pfm Member
I think it was late 80’s, maybe 1990. The current forum is about the 5th iteration now.
Tony L
Administrator
Ben Sidran, Earl Klug, David Sanborn etc! I remember HiFi Review being plastered with reviews for such things.
FWIW I’ve got Sidran’s Doctor Is In and Bop City and I rather like them. They overlap musically with Steely Dan to some degree to my mind, and are remarkably dynamic and punchy recordings.
Thanks
I missed the JV years unfortunately
Later on with Adam as moderator (correct name ?) that forum was entirely different and almost free speech as opposite to current highly moderated marketing tool for the Sheep brigade.
Those days back had a Mana Forum which was the real Wild West.
The Mana forum was crazy! Interesting but wouldn't want to go back to that sort of thing.
Tony L
Administrator
Late-90s. The internet as we know it (HTML) didn’t exist until 1993, and at that point there were only a few real hard-core computer geeks like me playing with it. I think the Naim Forum appeared around 1997.
Allan Probin
pfm Member
Ah, I was a bit out. I might have been conflating the forum with my early Naim days, they do seem interlinked. I do remember the forum’s strange structured thread format, JV’s interaction with the forum, and the shock to be informed via the forum that JV had died the previous day.
Thats something you'll never ever be accused for
Christ, cut the man some slack. With a name like "boegelund" I'm guessing that English is his second language, in which case using "accused for" instead of "accused of" is pardonable.
Unless of course you are fluent in another language, regularly post on internet forums using it and never, ever make a grammatical error. No? Hmm.
Absolutely right, they were hugely influential. I was in school in the 80s, we all aspired to having a hifi, our dads had one and it was a matter of discussion. Aged 14-15 we were all absolutely convinced that the LP12 was the best turntable in the world, ever, and that nothing else came close. So firm a grip did this have on me that 15 years later in the late 90s I was shopping for a used TT. LP12s at the time were about £300-500. I found one. The same dealer had a Townshend Rock at the same price. Did I consider the 2 possibilities? Not for a second. I knew absolutely that the LP12 would be better, having seen neither. I also knew that if I bought the Townshend I would forever beat myself up that I had settled for second best. So I bought the Linn. Even 15 years on.
Locheeboy
pfm Member
Nah, the scales fell from your eyes…
It was like a curtain drawing open…
I was onstage with Dylan/Van/ Clapton
It was Addis wot did it
John
Rack’em Up!
There was a Naim forum archive of the old forum at one point. I think it only contained posts from Julian Vereker. It seems to have been flushed down the memory hole.