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Naim December price hike

For non ultra luxury goods, this is true. But in the world of the $1M handbag you don't ever offer a discount, because if it's only $500k then obviously it's not as good, is it? Worse still, the customer who handed over full price last week is seriously pissed off because they no longer have a million dollar bag and do you think that they'll be back next year paying full ticket for the bigger, better, $2M version? Not a chance.

Naim do not make $1m handbags, nor even $1m hifi. They are not a vertically integrated operating model and they do not own their distributors or retail outlets (all of which is true for real luxury goods).

Despite their goods being sold by supposedly competing retailers, there are no retail discounts advertised anywhere.

Hence this increase in the "recommended" retail price will apply everywhere without exception.
 
Naim do not make $1m handbags, nor even $1m hifi. They are not a vertically integrated operating model and they do not own their distributors or retail outlets (all of which is true for real luxury goods).

Despite their goods being sold by supposedly competing retailers, there are no retail discounts advertised anywhere.

Hence this increase in the "recommended" retail price will apply everywhere without exception.

So what?
 
Actually, yes.
I bought one for a girlfriend some years ago, and I held one for a friend while she went to the Ladies. How about you?

Me, no, luxury goods, indirectly yes, but not £1m handbags such as yourself apparently...I generally don't use analogies of things I don't have much experience or knowledge in.
 
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Do you realise there is a word for behaviour by retail and manufacturing consortia that has as its object or effect the elimination of price competition?
What you're accusing them of is illegal and every manufacturer knows this. There is no cartel (the idea that the chain audio stores would price-fix is laughable, especially given the enmity that exists between some of them. Richer Sounds have, in the past, sent solicitors letters out to manufacturers who try to suggest toeing any kind of line) and many years working in the hifi industry showed me that there's a lot of competition, even though many of the smaller retailers would love not to have to discount. There's only so many people to buy this stuff so customers play dealers off against one another to get the best deal. While I no longer work in the industry, I was sat in of Naim's biggest dealers the other day saying hello to a friend. Every Naim item sold in the previous week had been discounted, some very substantially, so whilst I get your concern, in practice the market functions fine. Discounts are there if you want to negotiate. Of course there's going to be blanket price rises when Naim start charging their dealers more, however.
 
What you're accusing them of is illegal and every manufacturer knows this. There is no cartel (the idea that the chain audio stores would price-fix is laughable, especially given the enmity that exists between some of them. Richer Sounds have, in the past, sent solicitors letters out to manufacturers who try to suggest toeing any kind of line) and many years working in the hifi industry showed me that there's a lot of competition, even though many of the smaller retailers would love not to have to discount. There's only so many people to buy this stuff so customers play dealers off against one another to get the best deal. While I no longer work in the industry, I was sat in of Naim's biggest dealers the other day saying hello to a friend. Every Naim item sold in the previous week had been discounted, some very substantially, so whilst I get your concern, in practice the market functions fine. Discounts are there if you want to negotiate. Of course there's going to be blanket price rises when Naim start charging their dealers more, however.

What is your explanation for the reason that not a single retailer is advertising discounts? In any functioning market this is what happens.
 
I've never bought a NAIM or any Hifi appliance for that matter at advertised rrp, and I've never seen any advertised discounts either unless its a model wide discount that all retailers are doing, for the obvious reasons of licensing agreements and keeping the harmony between dealers.

Dealers will often advertise 'open box' at discounts though, while they may not even be open box at all, but it allows them manoeuvre room to advertise with discounts. It increases cash flow and distributor relationships.

Im all for it. Whatever the dealer is happy to make on the deal, and I get a good price, bring it on.
 
As I remember it (retired now) within reason dealers could offer discounts, cables foc etc either under or over the counter in their own shop. However the manufacturers tended to discourage this online or over the phone. If one dealer broke ranks and advertised, say, 10% off all Naim then the other Naim dealers would either complain and/or join in. Pocketkitchen is correct, negotiate in store and see what can be offered.
 
Dealers have targets, there will be financial incentives, good deals can happen towards the year end. Retailers need to make money, these are the grubby realities. Hate to break this to you;)
 
Dealers have targets, there will be financial incentives, good deals can happen towards the year end. Retailers need to make money, these are the grubby realities. Hate to break this to you;)

You're genuinely wasting your time with these weirdos! Most of them claim to hate the brand yet work themselves into a lather because they cannot now afford something they claim not to want.
 
What is your explanation for the reason that not a single retailer is advertising discounts? In any functioning market this is what happens.
Because it’s reductive and ends up not working for the manufacturer, retailer or consumer. Like an Ortofon cartridge or a Mercedes car or even a Sonos speaker, you rarely see advertised discounts because Google makes it pointless. Screen scraping software means that someone else is a pound cheaper, instantly. Within a day or so no-one can make any money as that instantly happens again and again, making it pointless and it ends up costing the manufacturer their reputation as their products end up being sold with no service to people for whom they aren’t suitable. What happens in practice, therefore is that people advertise at SRP and discount from it on negotiation. Also, specialist companies often have retailer agreements in place that say the retailer will not mail-order certain products as they want them installed correctly. This costs the retailer time and money, so they’re less inclined to give away gross margin. In the case of Naim, John Lewis sell some of their products. Should they attempt to lean on a retailer that size regarding pricing, they’d find themselves in a very expensive legal situation quickly.

I’m not going to go round in circles here, so the last thing I’ll say is that discounts are freely available on most Hifi products, so in practice, unless you’re just looking for a theoretical argument, there’s actually no problem at all.
 
Because it’s reductive and ends up not working for the manufacturer, retailer or consumer. Like an Ortofon cartridge or a Mercedes car or even a Sonos speaker, you rarely see advertised discounts because Google makes it pointless. Screen scraping software means that someone else is a pound cheaper, instantly. Within a day or so no-one can make any money as that instantly happens again and again, making it pointless and it ends up costing the manufacturer their reputation as their products end up being sold with no service to people for whom they aren’t suitable. What happens in practice, therefore is that people advertise at SRP and discount from it on negotiation. Also, specialist companies often have retailer agreements in place that say the retailer will not mail-order certain products as they want them installed correctly. This costs the retailer time and money, so they’re less inclined to give away gross margin. In the case of Naim, John Lewis sell some of their products. Should they attempt to lean on a retailer that size regarding pricing, they’d find themselves in a very expensive legal situation quickly.

I’m not going to go round in circles here, so the last thing I’ll say is that discounts are freely available on most Hifi products, so in practice, unless you’re just looking for a theoretical argument, there’s actually no problem at all.

All that this tells me is you haven't the first clue how competition law works.

The section of your quote in bold is actually a criminal offence, see Ping Europe Ltd v Competition & Markets Authority [2020] EWCA Civ 13.

Pricing behaviour is revealed by prices actually advertised and at which goods are sold. You cannot claim you are not engaged in price fixing because you occasionally, upon private enquiry, will lower the price beneath that which you have advertised.

Can you identify a single retailer that openly advertised that the price it is advertising is merely a guide price and that, upon enquiry, they will gladly lower it? I suspect I know the answer.
 
All that this tells me is you haven't the first clue how competition law works.

Can you identify a single retailer that openly advertised that the price it is advertising is merely a guide price and that, upon enquiry, they will gladly lower it? I suspect I know the answer.

All of the price lists provided by any manufacturer are titled, "Suggested Selling Price". I'd regard it as implicit that those prices are "suggestions", unless my English isn't correct. Given that many hifi companies are not small concerns in the way that Naim Audio is for example, I would suggest that the likes of IAG/Goldpeak/Sonos/Sound United etc, along with the larger boutique players, such as Naim, are very well aware of the law and how to reach market without being sued by some of their own retailers. I'm not a lawyer (I'm guessing you must be), so the finer points of the law do elude me, to be fair. I did however work in the CE sector for 30 years and what didn't elude me was the effort that manufacturers went to to stay on the right side of the law, because pretty much every small hifi dealer I've ever been aware of wants protection from price competition, which as you rightly state, isn't allowed and it's manufacturers that would bear the costs of falling foul.

Perhaps you could start a test case?
 
We're not finished.

When I think back when my nait5i went faulty after 2 years and it cost €350 to repair, I should of taken a lump hammer to it and posted it on YouTube.
I can only imagine the repair costs these days.

Yes, that would have been very mature :rolleyes:

P.S. 'I should have' not 'I should of'.
 
We're not finished.

When I think back when my nait5i went faulty after 2 years and it cost €350 to repair, I should of taken a lump hammer to it and posted it on YouTube.
I can only imagine the repair costs these days.
Still the same now. Rather irrational aren’t you?
 
Blimey…..
11 pages of postings just for one brands price rise. Which they usually do once a year anyway.
Does any other brand engender such heightened emotions?
I’m pretty sure there have been plenty of other brands who have also increased their prices this year?
 


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