MQA

[RoA]

Summary of a typical MQA thread on PFM:

I don't know what it is and never heard it but I am darn sure it's from the devil and must be eradicated.

Meanwhile, people like me have been quietly enjoying it. And I have a subscription to pretty much all the streaming services, including Qobuz.

Ditto, Quobuz Studio and Tidal Hifi, both at the same time. Absolutely fantastic and invaluable for anyone that likes to have the world's music at their fingertips. I don't buy physical formats anymore personally and haven't done so for a number of years.

Fighting streaming is living in the past imho.

My speakers decode (unfold?) MQA but I am usually too musically involved to make comparisons. It's there though and that's fine with me.

https://darko.audio/2020/10/mqa-on-the-kef-ls50-wireless-ii/

 

[garyi]

I found that video interesting. I'm moving to Qubuz. Its just such a same search and general layout of qubuz in roon is not good.

 

[Heckyman]

I don't "believe" in MQA, I have simply been listening to it for a very long time. I actually understand the strengths and weaknesses of it, which it has, like any other format.

This is something that all of the loud and angry detractors can't claim.

It is always "I have read about it from people who hate it and so I hate it." Or "I heard it for 30 seconds and I hate it." And "I hate Bob Stuart and so I hate it." Maybe "I saw some graphs and so I hate it." Perhaps "I signed up for a free Tidal trial, didn't have an MQA DAC, and so I hate it."

It is never,"I listened to it for a long time with cerified hardware and this is what I think."

I have listened to it and compared it on several occasions and in different systems including on certified hardware. The subjective results are variable, generally it's been a negative for me. I can see how some people might prefer it, there is certainly some kind of processing going on that people may find pleasing. That said, it's a small difference that doesn't make much difference unless you're in "comparison mode".

But SQ is not my concern. Wherever possible, I avoid buying products that are based on marketing claims that I believe to be fundamentally fake and dishonest. I want to hear the file the artist/engineer recorded, not a processed version of such a file purporting to be closer to the "studio master".

Call it "conscience capitalism", a capitalism that's about more than just money. There is are too many spivs peddling snake oil in the world, not just in hifi. I fight it wherever I see it, by raising awareness and refusing to buy the product. You may choose otherwise, it's (still) a free world, although we may be sleepwalking into a less free world.

 

[DimitryZ]

I have listened to it and compared it on several occasions and in different systems including on certified hardware. The subjective results are variable, generally it's been a negative for me. I can see how some people might prefer it, there is certainly some kind of processing going on that people may find pleasing. That said, it's a small difference that doesn't make much difference unless you're in "comparison mode".

But SQ is not my concern. Wherever possible, I avoid buying products that are based on marketing claims that I believe to be fundamentally fake and dishonest. I want to hear the file the artist/engineer recorded, not a processed version of such a file purporting to be closer to the "studio master".

Call it "conscience capitalism", a capitalism that's about more than just money. There is are too many spivs peddling snake oil in the world, not just in hifi. I fight it wherever I see it, by raising awareness and refusing to buy the product. You may choose otherwise, it's (still) a free world, although we may be sleepwalking into a less free world.

Your argument is circular. You say you want to hear the music artists/engineers recorded, not "processed version" but what they sign up to when they choose MQA is what sounds like their music to them. My guess it's the apodizing filter that makes MQA tick, so to speak.

Take Jacob Collier. As a Grammy winner and all-around wunderkind, he can pick and choose his production values - and as a self produced musician, he knows SQ. He releases in MQA.

As for your valiant struggle against snake oil, please save it for artisan ethernet cables.

 

[Heckyman]

As for your valiant struggle against snake oil, please save it for artisan ethernet cables.

This topic is about MQA and my opinion is that it's snake oil. I can say what I like about it, thank you very much.

 

[eevo1969]

But SQ is not my concern. Wherever possible, I avoid buying products that are based on marketing claims that I believe to be fundamentally fake and dishonest. I want to hear the file the artist/engineer recorded, not a processed version of such a file purporting to be closer to the "studio master".

Call it "conscience capitalism", a capitalism that's about more than just money. There is are too many spivs peddling snake oil in the world, not just in hifi. I fight it wherever I see it, by raising awareness and refusing to buy the product. You may choose otherwise, it's (still) a free world, although we may be sleepwalking into a less free world.

I think if you get your morals out regarding this sort of inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) thing you’ll end up tied in knots just looking around your home unless you live in a unbranded cardboard box.
I consider M&S “taste the difference” as fundamentally fake and dishonest and “I can’t believe it’s not butter” a fraud and that’s just opening my fridge

 

[RoA]

I think if you get your morals out regarding this sort of inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) thing you’ll end up tied in knots just looking around your home unless you live in a unbranded cardboard box.
I consider M&S “taste the difference” as fundamentally fake and dishonest and “I can’t believe it’s not butter” a fraud and that’s just opening my fridge

Perhaps we should include cardboard boxes too?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2010/mar/31/plastics-cardboard

 

[Heckyman]

I think if you get your morals out regarding this sort of inconsequential (in the grand scheme of things) thing you’ll end up tied in knots just looking around your home unless you live in a unbranded cardboard box.
I consider M&S “taste the difference” as fundamentally fake and dishonest and “I can’t believe it’s not butter” a fraud and that’s just opening my fridge

I just buy butter. I have no objection to "I can't believe it's not butter", they are very clear you are not getting butter and it's obvious you will decide for yourself how it tastes. Unlike "spreadable butter" which is half vegetable spread when you read the small print.

 

[narabdela]

This topic is about MQA and my opinion is that it's snake oil. I can say what I like about it, thank you very much.

Indeed. I think that people sometimes forget that this is a forum.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/forum (definitions, like mileage, may vary).

 

[Heckyman]

Ironic that our champion of capitalism is trying to shut down free speech...

 

[krenzler]

I'm just pleased that Qobuz has finally become available in my country.

 

[RoA]

I'm just pleased that Qobuz has finally become available in my country.

Fantastic quality, depending on recording etc ... but woeful interface. Significantly behind Tidal though Quobuz are trying with a few recent updates that have narrowed the gap (a little). Both lag behind Spotify (in app terms only) but I make no secret of what I think about that one.

 

[evand]

MQA is nothing other than its creators trying to insert themselves in the music production value chain on the pretence of sound quality. They lied about it being lossless, they have mass processed thousands of albums with no regard for provenance and authenticity and tidal have adopted it because it lowers bandwidth costs. Everything about it is an outright scam. Beyond that drink all the koolaid you like.

 

[mansr]

tidal have adopted it because it lowers bandwidth costs

Even that part is a lie. MQA-encoded files are actually larger than plain FLAC.

 

[RoA]

If it looks like a shill and quacks like a shill... Either that, or he's unbelievably gullible, though that still doesn't explain why he feels the need to leap to MQA's defence the moment anyone suggests it might not be quite what it is presented as.

Because he has just as much a right to express his opinion as others?

This thread was never going to go any other way

 

[Tony L]

I don’t understand why folk get defensive or entrenched here. I’ve no issue if people like the Tidal service and feel MQA sounds good subjectively. For me the interesting thing here is the corporate behaviour and that it would appear, based on the very limited amount of open testing that has been possible, not to be as advertised.

That they won’t allow public scrutiny or testing is very telling. As stated on the video the objectivist/subjectivist favourite subject, cables, are fully available for analysis. You can buy them, test what goes in one end comes out the other, measure the resistance, capacitance, effectiveness of screening etc etc. They are fully available for peer review and can even be dissected to component parts and individual materials should one wish.

It is this latter aspect that interests me, along with my usual ‘Right To Repair’ soapbox, which I assume is very poor with MQA-enabled kit due to the level of bespoke and restricted technology (likely just a chip, but I bet you can’t buy it as a spare part).

 

[garyi]

I just found it interesting that the video posted by the OP, the guy got his music onto Tidal and it was converted to MQA, at no point was he asked his opinion on it, so 'how the artist intended' is a bit of a stretch I would say.

 

[kristoffer]

I'm just pleased that Qobuz has finally become available in my country.

Me too!

 

[Dave H.]

I just found it interesting that the video posted by the OP, the guy got his music onto Tidal and it was converted to MQA, at no point was he asked his opinion on it, so 'how the artist intended' is a bit of a stretch I would say.

One wonders how Tidal decide what gets converted. None of the music I have on Tidal appears in MQA as far as I’m aware, and nor were we ever asked - so it’s not like we declined either.

Though since it was mentioned upthread, much of our stuff is on Bandcamp, and is put there by labels, so the money does not go straight to the artist in all cases as many people seem to believe.

Perceptions and myths abound on all sides, I think, and I look forward to the whole affair getting a bit more mature and hopefully transparent eventually. FWIW I see MQA as unlikely to help in this regard!

 

[mansr]

I don’t understand why folk get defensive or entrenched here.

If I'm "entrenched," it is because I spent considerable effort (decompiling firmware, etc) figuring out what MQA really does, and like the author of the video, what I found bore little resemblance to the claims made by the company. Now if it was just another silly product (like, say, a "grounding box") that I could simply choose not to buy, I'd laugh at it for a bit and then get on with other things. However, the company has explicitly stated that their goal is for _all_ music to be delivered to consumers as MQA. Thankfully, they have not yet succeeded in reaching this goal, but that doesn't mean they're not trying or that they won't manage to get at least part of the way there. Indeed, MQA is now nearly impossible to avoid on Tidal. Use another service, you say. It may not be that simple. A few labels supply MQA content also to Qobuz, despite them ordering plain PCM. A growing number of CDs have been issued with MQA-encoded content. There is even an MQA LP, whatever the hell that means. If we don't push back persistently now, we risk waking up one morning to find MQA firmly entrenched, and effecting a change then will be very, very difficult. With your habits of acquiring and listening to music, you may not have noticed any MQA presence yet. Please do not make the mistake of concluding from your own experience that the fears of others are unfounded. If they have their way, they _will_ come for your music too one day. Whether or not you see this threat as realistic, you should, and I believe you do, at least realise that everything the MQA company promotes is very much against your own ideology.