More tyres!

[kennyh]

Yes Steve, have used all the tyres you mention there in the past.

The 888's became flavour of the month a while back, I boviously used them on 7's but also tried a set on a Merc we had, no traumas even if it was wet really.

I'm back on Avons with the 7 now, but using the CR 500 which as you know is specially made for that particular car. Similar tread pattern and compound as the 888's though.

I remember the kipper on the Mrs. when she came to Demon Tweeks once with me and saw the brand new tyres being shaved...........the roll of the eyes spoke volumes

 

[Pete MB&D]

I once had a race tyre on the front of my Kawasaki Z650 (modded with with dual front disks, bigger master cylinder) loads of grip, you could break very hard and feel the tyre going round slower then the road but not locked up.

It didn't last long!

Pete

 

[stevec67]

A bit like cambelts, I take it.

Well, yes. They can break after 20k miles or last for 100k. There are identical engines used by different manufacturers - they have different change frequencies.

No matter what we do while driving there are only two parameters we can influence: Speed (faster or slower) and steering (left or right). When this fact is understood, it is obvious that the most critic element in safety are the tires. No reason to save in this part of waiting too long if someone cares about his life.

If all other things were equal this would be the case. But they aren't. I have had a number of older vehicles and there are any number of other factors that influence its handling and roadholding. No amount of new tyres will correct heavily worn suspension or even moderately worn suspension. I know, I've had that car. So unless you replace the dampers, bushes and springs every 5 years or so it will be less than perfect and worrying about tyres that are showing 3mm as opposed to 4 will not make the difference.

 

[kennyh]

Well, yes. They can break after 20k miles or last for 100k. There are identical engines used by different manufacturers - they have different change frequencies.


If all other things were equal this would be the case. But they aren't. I have had a number of older vehicles and there are any number of other factors that influence its handling and roadholding. No amount of new tyres will correct heavily worn suspension or even moderately worn suspension. I know, I've had that car. So unless you replace the dampers, bushes and springs every 5 years or so it will be less than perfect and worrying about tyres that are showing 3mm as opposed to 4 will not make the difference.

Totally agree with that 100%.

 

[Rico]

No, it doesn't. Paul has old, sub-optimal tyres and you're encouraging him to drive his widow-making 911 with "some intent" just so he gets his money's worth?!

Personally, I have experienced first hand what old, but barely used tyres feel like in direct comparison with fresh tyres of identical make and model, and that's on an AWD Subaru. I wouldn't use old tyres on a performance car, but then I'm neither cheap nor reckless.

Fully agree.

Although my experience wasn't with AWD Subaru.

To the OP: I'd suggest that a new set of Hankooks would surprise with how much better grip, ride, steering response they provide over your old, hard, Contis.

To be clear - I'm not advocating Hankooks for your 911.

Old, hardened-with-age tyres will have significantly deteriorated, decreasing margins for error, and safety performance such as stability, stopping distance, grip.

New, quality tyres - cheap insurance. Particularly with a performance car.

LingLongs (and similar) - false economy, and increased stopping distance, reduced grip in wet etc. You might not discover this until you NEED TO STOP or AVOID A HAZARD/CHILD/PENSIONER/CYCLIST in the road.

HTH

 

[kennyh]

In fact although suspension settings and geometry had always played a role with a lot of the cars I've had it only came home to me a couple of years back just how drastic that misaligned suspension/steering components can be.

We fitted a new set of Michelin Pileups on the little SportKA the Mrs had at the time..not the convertible the normal shape KA.

Now this thing was "overtyred" from when it left the factory. Massive wheels, low profile tyres and all still using the same flimsy pressed steel wishbones the basic KA used on 13" skinny rims.

It ate wishbones, and I mean ate them, and she only used it for work and the Tesco run.

Anyway, these new Michelins were fitted and a couple of weeks later she complained of a "Weird noise" the car was making......as they do

So, I gets in the car and took it for a spin, within 50 meters I could hear what she was on about, an awful chattering/clattering from the front wheels.

I thought something big had failed, collapsed bearing, another wishbone failure etc.

Crawled underneath with a bar and everything seemed plum and tight, jacked car up and no play in bearings

Stumped really, I then ran my hands around the Brand new o/s front tyre as with the body kit on the KA you couldn't see the full tyre properly.............jeez it hurt, pulled my hand back and I'd been cut to ribbons......seriously painfull.

The tyre looked like new but the inside edge had gone, stripped of rubber, there was string and metal wire hanging out of it.....these were less than 500 mile old tyres, I couldn't believe it. I'd not seen the like in all my years playing with cars.

After cleaning my hand up I whipped the car up on Axel stands and both fronts were shot.
Lowered the car and the penny dropped, the wheels were completely out of toe by a long way as far as I could tell by eye, got my "tracking string" out....and it confirmed it.

I asked the wife if she'd slammed a kerb or had an incident recently and she said no, I was baffled.

To her credit a few hours later she then came up with what she said could be a possibility. She'd hit a really deep and jagged fresh pothole at about 50 mph on a dual carriageway whilst out on a rare house call from work......and that must have been it. She said it did shake her up at the time but never mentioned it as the car still drove well.

My mates tracking gauges showed it at over 6 degrees out....6 degrees.

Nothing to my disbelief was bent either but the whole rack had moved.

Anyhow, 150 quids worth of rubber shagged in less than 500 miles from new, extreme I know but I'd still not have believed it possible. The tyres simply must have just been getting pushed around since they were new.

 

[linnfomaniac83]

Well, yes. They can break after 20k miles or last for 100k. There are identical engines used by different manufacturers - they have different change frequencies.


If all other things were equal this would be the case. But they aren't. I have had a number of older vehicles and there are any number of other factors that influence its handling and roadholding. No amount of new tyres will correct heavily worn suspension or even moderately worn suspension. I know, I've had that car. So unless you replace the dampers, bushes and springs every 5 years or so it will be less than perfect and worrying about tyres that are showing 3mm as opposed to 4 will not make the difference.

Good point, my car was fitted with Eibach springs and Bilstein shocks and ARBs two years ago and it's done about 18k since, it handles like its on rails. However my yoko tyres had started to get slippy in the wet so I have just been and got them all changed. I have had Goodyear Eagle F1s fitted as they were recommended as a good alrounder. We shall see

 

[linnfomaniac83]

In fact although suspension settings and geometry had always played a role with a lot of the cars I've had it only came home to me a couple of years back just how drastic that misaligned suspension/steering components can be.

We fitted a new set of Michelin Pileups on the little SportKA the Mrs had at the time..not the convertible the normal shape KA.

Now this thing was "overtyred" from when it left the factory. Massive wheels, low profile tyres and all still using the same flimsy pressed steel wishbones the basic KA used on 13" skinny rims.

It ate wishbones, and I mean ate them, and she only used it for work and the Tesco run.

Anyway, these new Michelins were fitted and a couple of weeks later she complained of a "Weird noise" the car was making......as they do

So, I gets in the car and took it for a spin, within 50 meters I could hear what she was on about, an awful chattering/clattering from the front wheels.

I thought something big had failed, collapsed bearing, another wishbone failure etc.

Crawled underneath with a bar and everything seemed plum and tight, jacked car up and no play in bearings

Stumped really, I then ran my hands around the Brand new o/s front tyre as with the body kit on the KA you couldn't see the full tyre properly.............jeez it hurt, pulled my hand back and I'd been cut to ribbons......seriously painfull.

The tyre looked like new but the inside edge had gone, stripped of rubber, there was string and metal wire hanging out of it.....these were less than 500 mile old tyres, I couldn't believe it. I'd not seen the like in all my years playing with cars.

After cleaning my hand up I whipped the car up on Axel stands and both fronts were shot.
Lowered the car and the penny dropped, the wheels were completely out of toe by a long way as far as I could tell by eye, got my "tracking string" out....and it confirmed it.

I asked the wife if she'd slammed a kerb or had an incident recently and she said no, I was baffled.

To her credit a few hours later she then came up with what she said could be a possibility. She'd hit a really deep and jagged fresh pothole at about 50 mph on a dual carriageway whilst out on a rare house call from work......and that must have been it. She said it did shake her up at the time but never mentioned it as the car still drove well.

My mates tracking gauges showed it at over 6 degrees out....6 degrees.

Nothing to my disbelief was bent either but the whole rack had moved.

Anyhow, 150 quids worth of rubber shagged in less than 500 miles from new, extreme I know but I'd still not have believed it possible. The tyres simply must have just been getting pushed around since they were new.

Ah, yes my sister has a pug 206 that was destroying tyres, that was tracking misalignment. It gets driven on some pretty rough roads around where they live.

 

[stevec67]

The most evil handling cars I have ever had have been so because of worn suspension bushes. It generally takes 100k+ miles but once they are worn any amount of new dampers and tyres doesn't help. Star players were a Fiesta that leapt about every time it clipped a cat's eye in a bend, a Triumph Spitfire that would go into frightening weaves at speed (never sussed that one, but there was so much wear it could have been anything) and a Cavalier that would leave a roundabout at any point, regardless of which way the wheels were pointing, simply by applying power. Both the Fester and the Cav got a couple of new bushes and improved dramatically.

 

[James]

If all other things were equal this would be the case. But they aren't. I have had a number of older vehicles and there are any number of other factors that influence its handling and roadholding. No amount of new tyres will correct heavily worn suspension or even moderately worn suspension. I know, I've had that car. So unless you replace the dampers, bushes and springs every 5 years or so it will be less than perfect and worrying about tyres that are showing 3mm as opposed to 4 will not make the difference.

Some shock-absorbers and suspension bushings last longer than others. In my experience, OEM shock absorbers in Japanese cars tend to be noticeably less effective after as little as 40,000kms. I replaced the KYBs in my Subaru at around 20,000km with Bilsteins. They are still firm after nearly 160,000km and eight years.

Same deal with bushings. The rubber-based ones don't last, but offer superior NVH performance when they are within specification. The elastomer bushings are less kind, but offer much better precision and durability.

 

[ariegur]

Well, yes. They can break after 20k miles or last for 100k. There are identical engines used by different manufacturers - they have different change frequencies.


If all other things were equal this would be the case. But they aren't. I have had a number of older vehicles and there are any number of other factors that influence its handling and roadholding. No amount of new tyres will correct heavily worn suspension or even moderately worn suspension. I know, I've had that car. So unless you replace the dampers, bushes and springs every 5 years or so it will be less than perfect and worrying about tyres that are showing 3mm as opposed to 4 will not make the difference.

There are systems - steering, brakes, suspention and more and there are accessories. I hope that I choose the right words... Tires are the most important accessories.

Arye

 

[stevec67]

I don't think that you can separate tyres from the other key parts of a car. They are essential parts of the system and need to be kept in good order, just like suspension, steering and brake systems. Any failure of any part of the system may render it unsafe.

Tyres wear out a bit faster than the other things, that's all. So rather than call them accessories I would call them consumables. Accessories are things like radios and furry dice, if you removed them the thing would still work.

 

[ariegur]

I don't think that you can separate tyres from the other key parts of a car. They are essential parts of the system and need to be kept in good order, just like suspension, steering and brake systems. Any failure of any part of the system may render it unsafe.

Tyres wear out a bit faster than the other things, that's all. So rather than call them accessories I would call them consumables. Accessories are things like radios and furry dice, if you removed them the thing would still work.

If someone loses contact with the road, all the other systems are useless. It can happen even only when one rear tyere becomes flat in high speed driving situation.

Think of a car that goes through oil on the road. What can the driver do with all the systems? Pray.....

Arye

 

[James]

If someone loses contact with the road, all the other systems are useless. It can happen even only when one rear tyere becomes flat in high speed driving situation.

Many people don't realise how shock absorbers keep tyres in contact with the road. You could have the best tyres on your car, but if your shocks are stuffed, they will be bouncing all over the road - unless it is billiard table smooth. Even if tyres are the part that keeps the car on the road, it is critically dependent on the suspension to do its job.

 

[stevec67]

Exactly as James says. It's all part of the same system. I had an old 2cv with useless rear shock absorbers, it was dangerous. Nothing to do with the tyres, everything to do with the car wobbling all over. Replaced, done. The same would apply to a new car with worn out tyres, but you can't separate one element. It's like saying bricks are more important than mortar in a wall or a vest is more important than a shirt in keeping you warm. Everything counts, they all need each other.