MDAC first listen thread
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Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Hi John
Voltage level is +17.9v.
Headphones are Sony MDR CD 1700; I've also tried a pair of Sennheisers and the noise is still there, even with everything else unplugged.
Noise is on both channels.
Cheers
Joe
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
Haha. Flavour of the month versus flavour of the --month. Popcorn time.
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
Well, I didn't say it was better, just that I had compared them
.You would be better off asking sq225917 to be honest as he has listened to the two of them a lot more than I have.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Sergiox,
The Young is a little leaner with slightly less definition in the bottom end, it goes as low as the mdac it just doesn't have the detail and texture in the bass. The mdac in comparison seems to do a large and deeper stereo image but it looses out to the extra sparkle of the Young at the top end.
The best I can explain it is that the Young probably sounds better to a younger audience than the mdac. In reality the differences are not that great. Given the lower cost, pre-amp function and remote control of the Mdac, unless you need 192khz+ over usb it might be a more practical choice. If the Young had come with a volume control I would never have even considered getting rid of mine, that said I'm perfectly happy.
The Young is a little leaner with slightly less definition in the bottom end, it goes as low as the mdac it just doesn't have the detail and texture in the bass. The mdac in comparison seems to do a large and deeper stereo image but it looses out to the extra sparkle of the Young at the top end.
The best I can explain it is that the Young probably sounds better to a younger audience than the mdac. In reality the differences are not that great. Given the lower cost, pre-amp function and remote control of the Mdac, unless you need 192khz+ over usb it might be a more practical choice. If the Young had come with a volume control I would never have even considered getting rid of mine, that said I'm perfectly happy.
BitPerfect is an iTunes plug-in (for Macs) that purports to make iTunes play errr... bit perfect.
The other context you'll find used here is the test file for the M-DAC which, in conjunction with the associated function within the M-DAC menu, tests that the unit is receiving bit-perfect data from the transport or whatever host is driving. This function is entirely platform independent - it's an audio test.
The pre-amp function now that the unbalanced inputs noise floor has been lowered should not to be overlooked.
My HK990's pre-amp had an odd behaviour in that its noise floor would increase between 0 to -20db yet at -20db with a 1khz feed it was measured to achieve greater than -100db SNR.
Bypassing the pre-amp in my case made a tremendous difference for music that's quite active in the 0 to -20db area. The other half commented it was possibly the biggest sound improvement she's heard in a while after all my tinkering. As always, YMMV.
onlyconnect
pfm Member
What is "Presentation"? I have long wondered. My goal is "transparent". Is presentation a form of colouration?
Tim
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Presentation is just how far they may stray form entirely neutral. of course they may stray in different directions. It's all a bit pointless really, unless you were the recording engineer at the time of the recording, and/or the guy behind the mixing desk, how would you know?
JohnW
pfm member
Hi Joe,
Sorry, it does seem like your unit is faulty - I'll arrange Steve from IAG to give you a call to arrange a swap out,
Could you Pls. PM your Serial Number so that I can insure I get to check the unit out when its returned,
Sorry once again,
John
JemHayward
pfm Member
MDAC - my review:
maybe a bit pointless as most people in this thread already have an MDAC at home, but, here goes anyway.
System: Flac files on a Windows Home Server, mainly 16/44.1 but growing number of 24 bit files up to 192Khz. Ethernet to Linn Sneaky DS, DS to MDAC via Belden 1694a digital coaxial with Canare plugs built by TM3 Connections. Balanced out using Neutrik plugs and Van Damme Starquad to EAR 890 running in Balanced mode then Atlas Hyper 2.0 cables to Martin Logan Summits, using WBT spades and bi-wire jumpers using Hyper 2.0.
Multi filter mains conditioner/switch unit (DIY).
Speakers set to flat (eventually after a lot of faffing about). In room frequency response measures as pretty much flat down to 30Hz with a few humps and bumps in the bass (but remarkably few now we've tweaked it again). Bit perfect tests run and all is well there. Input sensitivity of power amp is adjustable, so it was set to be balanced and leaving normal listening leven on the MDAC at around -20dB.
Ears: mine, with the bias of reading all these posts, the manual, and preconceptions. My wifes, pianist, chorister, music fanatic with no interest in the technical, except if you can see the wires.
Music: Various during the running in period, but for the listening tests we used Ophelia, and My Skin from Natalie Merchants Ophelia album, and a 24/96 version of My Beloved Wife, from her Tigerlily album. We also used various tracks from Tony Levins World Diary, and some Jon Hopkins electronica.
Firstly, the bass is tight, very tight, extended and quite "dry". The EAR valve amp isn't warm and wooly but the change in bass quality that the MDAC brought is quite remarkable for a piece of modern electronics. We could reset the bass controls on the speakers, as we no longer needed to compensate for what I thought were room resonances. Differentiation of bass notes and timbres is really obvious, bass instruments have much more distinct characters and different instruments are easy to distinguish in sound and in space. The cello range is especially fine, though I'd like to study this with more tracks as there was a lack of bowing sounds on the recordings we were using - probably due to microphone positioning. The fact we picked up on this is also telling. Vocals are beautifully clear and hearing lyrics and different voices, and how many voices, is very easy. Position in three dimensions is very precise, if not always logical, again, this is probably a recording technique issue. Top end clear, precise and undistorted to the limits of my male hearing and apparently fine up to the limits of my wifes, no splashy symbals, sibilance of muffling effects.
Then we listened to the various filters. None were horrid, I was expecting worse of some, but the slow rolloff was pleasant, and the Optimal Spectrum sounded rather like my old DAC but with a touch more clarity, especially in the bass. Then we tried the various Optimal Transient filters and XD seems to be the favourite. The effects of the filters seems less obvious on higher resolution material (is that logical?). D3E left on in the end, we really couldn't reliably detect its action, either way.
When I first heard the Summits it was on the end of a Naim 555/552/500 system, and it was a pretty stunning experience, which started a journey to afford the speakers and eventually find a system to drive them perfectly. I think that journey is now at an end, and the sound we are getting at home is quite simply better than when we heard the speakers for the first time.
I may not post on here as much in the future as I'm going to spend yet more time listening to music, and spend what money I have left on more music. Since collecting the MDAC a week ago, I have bought three albums, which is at least 50% more than normal for me... inspiring stuff.
maybe a bit pointless as most people in this thread already have an MDAC at home, but, here goes anyway.
System: Flac files on a Windows Home Server, mainly 16/44.1 but growing number of 24 bit files up to 192Khz. Ethernet to Linn Sneaky DS, DS to MDAC via Belden 1694a digital coaxial with Canare plugs built by TM3 Connections. Balanced out using Neutrik plugs and Van Damme Starquad to EAR 890 running in Balanced mode then Atlas Hyper 2.0 cables to Martin Logan Summits, using WBT spades and bi-wire jumpers using Hyper 2.0.
Multi filter mains conditioner/switch unit (DIY).
Speakers set to flat (eventually after a lot of faffing about). In room frequency response measures as pretty much flat down to 30Hz with a few humps and bumps in the bass (but remarkably few now we've tweaked it again). Bit perfect tests run and all is well there. Input sensitivity of power amp is adjustable, so it was set to be balanced and leaving normal listening leven on the MDAC at around -20dB.
Ears: mine, with the bias of reading all these posts, the manual, and preconceptions. My wifes, pianist, chorister, music fanatic with no interest in the technical, except if you can see the wires.
Music: Various during the running in period, but for the listening tests we used Ophelia, and My Skin from Natalie Merchants Ophelia album, and a 24/96 version of My Beloved Wife, from her Tigerlily album. We also used various tracks from Tony Levins World Diary, and some Jon Hopkins electronica.
Firstly, the bass is tight, very tight, extended and quite "dry". The EAR valve amp isn't warm and wooly but the change in bass quality that the MDAC brought is quite remarkable for a piece of modern electronics. We could reset the bass controls on the speakers, as we no longer needed to compensate for what I thought were room resonances. Differentiation of bass notes and timbres is really obvious, bass instruments have much more distinct characters and different instruments are easy to distinguish in sound and in space. The cello range is especially fine, though I'd like to study this with more tracks as there was a lack of bowing sounds on the recordings we were using - probably due to microphone positioning. The fact we picked up on this is also telling. Vocals are beautifully clear and hearing lyrics and different voices, and how many voices, is very easy. Position in three dimensions is very precise, if not always logical, again, this is probably a recording technique issue. Top end clear, precise and undistorted to the limits of my male hearing and apparently fine up to the limits of my wifes, no splashy symbals, sibilance of muffling effects.
Then we listened to the various filters. None were horrid, I was expecting worse of some, but the slow rolloff was pleasant, and the Optimal Spectrum sounded rather like my old DAC but with a touch more clarity, especially in the bass. Then we tried the various Optimal Transient filters and XD seems to be the favourite. The effects of the filters seems less obvious on higher resolution material (is that logical?). D3E left on in the end, we really couldn't reliably detect its action, either way.
When I first heard the Summits it was on the end of a Naim 555/552/500 system, and it was a pretty stunning experience, which started a journey to afford the speakers and eventually find a system to drive them perfectly. I think that journey is now at an end, and the sound we are getting at home is quite simply better than when we heard the speakers for the first time.
I may not post on here as much in the future as I'm going to spend yet more time listening to music, and spend what money I have left on more music. Since collecting the MDAC a week ago, I have bought three albums, which is at least 50% more than normal for me... inspiring stuff.
bottleneck
pfm Member
Mdac and Young..
Well..
Im not going to comment on that ''mine field'' ! - besides I havent even heard an Mdac.
The young doesn't work with Snow Leopard, Tiger or older Mac operating systems. . this is because they had trouble implementing 384khz (if I have the right number) on these platforms.
The Mdac has (in this thread) some compatibility issues with someone with a very new Apple computer.
.... and we're only talking apple compatibility here, never mind sound quality.
.... and not so long ago people were buying these things as blind as a bat.
try it at home before you buy it, or don't whinge when it doesn't do what you want it to, in your system.
Well..
Im not going to comment on that ''mine field'' ! - besides I havent even heard an Mdac.
The young doesn't work with Snow Leopard, Tiger or older Mac operating systems. . this is because they had trouble implementing 384khz (if I have the right number) on these platforms.
The Mdac has (in this thread) some compatibility issues with someone with a very new Apple computer.
.... and we're only talking apple compatibility here, never mind sound quality.
.... and not so long ago people were buying these things as blind as a bat.
try it at home before you buy it, or don't whinge when it doesn't do what you want it to, in your system.
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Hi John
Just tried to PM you an alternative contact number, but your PM box is full. Could you make some room?
Cheers
joe
JemHayward
pfm Member
I forgot to add - we also listened to online streams, BBC Radio 3 is actually stunningly good, now coming through at 320bps and its probably the best "radio" I've ever heard. Radio Paradise is very listenable, and Spotify, though more variable in quality, is much better via the MDAC. This is similar to my experience with the Naim DAC - very kind to what we'd have called poor quality sources.
So is the MDAC better than the Naim DAC? I don't know, as I've not heard them in the same system, but taking into account the fact the ultimate performance of the Naim DAC will be the performance of the Naim DAC plus a Preamp, I'd suggest that the Naim DAC with my old NAC 82 wouldn't touch the MDAC, but with a 552 it might, but with a £600 budget, its not something we'd need to worry about.
Entirely...at any sampling rate >48kHz, the filters should not have any significant effect within the normal human range of audibility. At 96kHz I couldn't distinguish between the filters with any reliability - the one or two second gap when switching doesn't make it any easier either
Incidentally, a brilliant test for hearing the effect of the filters at 44.1kHz is The Keith Jarrett Trio's version of "God Bless The Child". The interplay between different parts of the drum kit and the double bass sounds stunning on the MDAC.
Haven't read a single whinge yet. Have I missed something?
Or is it still because you don't like the audiolab threads being in the audio bit? Be honest now...
I agree with this 100% - both parts. I found the Young initially amazing but on longer listening it was a bit OTT and not sufficiently nuanced; the M-DAC always makes me thing of the word 'agile' - it's very tuneful throughout the frequency range, and has a considerably superior soundstage.
So I prefer the Audiolab's sound, but my actual reason for changing was to take advantage of a couple of features, most notably the remote volume control (my preamp doesn't have one), so I could fine-tune volume when changing albums/tracks. The other features are nice, though - the ability to change the filters, bit-perfect test etc. I was also irritated at M2Tech for not providing Linux drivers for the Young, although I have actually put WinXP on that machine due to a specific software requirement.
Overall I'm dead happy with the change from Young to M-DAC, although I imagine that those that have very laid-back systems might prefer the up-front sound of the Young, it's all synergy really.
One further thing is that the M-DAC manual is pretty good - I got foobar running with ASIO drivers to be bit-perfect within just a few minutes, having never used either before. Always appreciated when it just works
I've not got an MDAC and value your view
The Young DAC works fine for me on Snow leopard
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