MDAC First Listen (part 00111001)

[JohnW]

I 've got a big fablab close to my house so if you can provide with the plans i can manage to make my own support either in acrylic or in plywood using their laser printer

We can send you the DXF file of the PCB's arranged with there mounting holes.

You talk about adding "buttons" i think that you mean physical buttons to interact with software. When you send me the DEVDAC could you provide me with a hardware description of the "buttons" interface ?

No, I mean "software buttons" in the streamer UI that communicate to the DAC to select the digital filters / DAC inputs. We can work with your students to add an APi between the CM3 (streamer) and the DAC board to communicate the relevant settings. We have various "hardware" communications paths between the CM3 to our audio system to facilitate this.

Moreover is it possible to have 64Gb eMMC instead of 4 fot the streamer ?

On an earlier design we tried mounting the 64GB eMMC IC's twice without success... each memory IC cost about US$60 so it got expensive.

I've 2 more IC's I can try but its expensive when we fail!!! We are not sure where the issue is - poor BGA alignment on the PCB, PCB Design error (with the larger eMMC devices as we have success with 16GB eMMC devices)...

If your prepared to take the risk we can try again, I've a purchased a BGA rework station but I've not installed it yet, or have any working experience with it (yet )....

 

[JohnW]

Well, at least 4 of us will be getting nice Xmas presents (DACs for xmas) ..... I'm only saying that because, I'm jealous..

It be nice to have shipped a little more by then...

 

[BigDog]

"wired incorrectly for the MDAC2DD2A"...or ANY application?

I have a preamp with both RCA INPUTS and RCA OUTPUTS only but amp has XLR INPUTS and non-Westlake DAC has XLR OUTPUTS.

I was under the impression that XLR-RCA conversion really served no purpose beneficial to SQ. Have I been misinformed?

I know the Westlake team is busy with other things but I have seen no reply to this honest inquiry...nor to a subsequent post regarding clocking which I do not even see in the thread after a forum and post-by-post search.

 

[JemHayward]

I'm currently waiting for my VFETs, and it would seem that the best VFET spec is with the DACs inside the VFET, controlled by a MDAC2 or FDAC. My needs are for streamer (so probably the built in one, though as I have a Squeezebox system all through the house, I may retain a SBT for synchronised music) and I need an analogue input for my turntable, ideally with digital RIAA etc. Would the MDAC2 provide all of this, or would I still need to eventually get the FDAC to get all the facilities I need?

 

[JohnW]

I know the Westlake team is busy with other things but I have seen no reply to this honest inquiry...nor to a subsequent post regarding clocking which I do not even see in the thread after a forum and post-by-post search.

I replied to you in some detail - if my reply is "missing" then it was wiped when the forum crashed before the change to the new platform.

Its best to use balanced XLR cables from your AMP to your Pre-Amp and convert to singled ended operation within the RCA jack.

MDAC2 DD2A has a fully floating balanced analogue output (not so common these-days) - so there is an advantage in using an XLR cable from the DAC and again wire to Single ended at the Pre-amp.

 

[JohnW]

I'm currently waiting for my VFETs, and it would seem that the best VFET spec is with the DACs inside the VFET, controlled by a MDAC2 or FDAC. My needs are for streamer (so probably the built in one, though as I have a Squeezebox system all through the house, I may retain a SBT for synchronised music) and I need an analogue input for my turntable, ideally with digital RIAA etc. Would the MDAC2 provide all of this, or would I still need to eventually get the FDAC to get all the facilities I need?

Jem,

The MDAC2 ADC PCB has no space for a "decent" phono stage - we do not face the same space limitations with the FDAC where can include a decent phono stage.

moOde supports SBT so it will be a good solution for you.

 

[Jeroengrt]

The DevDAC doesn't have a USB input? Is this 1st DevDac for testing purposes?
What is so special about the mdac2 streamer pcb if you compare it to say a bluesound node or a laptop?

DevDAC PCB with SPDIF + Optical input PCB & MDAC2 Streamer Interconnection PCB GBP299 + shipping

MDAC2 Streamer PCB with 4GB eMMC GBP249

 

[JohnW]

The DevDAC board has USB input upto 768KHz on the mainboard - the SPDIF and Optical inputs are mounted on a smaller PCB mounted above the DevDAC PCB.

WRT the Bluesound Node - I dont know the product, but looking at the specs (software aside) the DevDAC + MDAC2 streamer is a different class product.

DevDAC + MDAC2 streamer:-

PCM 384KHz + DSD256 Bit accurate audio streaming

768KHz + DSD512 local RAM playback and via external USB input

Support for 1080P video via HDMI

Possible to decode MQA

Possible to support LCD + Touch screen

Dual differential ES9038Q2M DAC's

True balanced output - 125dB Dynamic range

Individually calibrated for THD compensation with coefficients stored on onboard EEPROM.

Multistage cascaded regulation PSUs

Fully Clock-locked Ethernet port, USB, and ASRC free DAC operation

Custom digital filters - Room correct possible (via plugins)

Theres much more... but my minds sidetracked on other issues ATM.

The idea behind the streamer is to remove the need for laptop, with a lower electrical noise and audio optimized solution.

 

[BigDog]

I replied to you in some detail - if my reply is "missing" then it was wiped when the forum crashed before the change to the new platform.

Its best to use balanced XLR cables from your AMP to your Pre-Amp and convert to singled ended operation within the RCA jack.

MDAC2 DD2A has a fully floating balanced analogue output (not so common these-days) - so there is an advantage in using an XLR cable from the DAC and again wire to Single ended at the Pre-amp.

Yes, I guess the original reply did go into the black hole of the net. Thank you for clarification on XLR to RCA connectivity.

My other inquiry is related to clocking. I know one of the benefits of the DETOX is that it "clock locks" with your various DACs.
Apparently reclocking has become the latest and greatest since numerous devices advertise reclocking...without being able to clock lock.
Given that this technique has been incorporated into various devices from SoTM, Uptone, etc., can you please explain why this is advantageous to USB data transfer even without the added locking feature?

Thanks.

 

[JohnW]

I know one of the benefits of the DETOX is that it "clock locks" with your various DACs.
Apparently reclocking has become the latest and greatest since numerous devices advertise reclocking...without being able to clock lock.
Given that this technique has been incorporated into various devices from SoTM, Uptone, etc., can you please explain why this is advantageous to USB data transfer even without the added locking feature?

BigDog,

Maybe too I'm tired - but I don't see the question?

 

[BigDog]

Yes, I guess the original reply did go into the black hole of the net. Thank you for clarification on XLR to RCA connectivity.

My other inquiry is related to clocking. I know one of the benefits of the DETOX is that it "clock locks" with your various DACs.
Apparently reclocking has become the latest and greatest since numerous devices advertise reclocking...without being able to clock lock.
Given that this technique has been incorporated into various devices from SoTM, Uptone, etc., can you please explain why this is advantageous to USB data transfer even without the added locking feature?

Thanks.

 

[stephengrenfell]

Given that this technique has been incorporated into various devices from SoTM, Uptone, etc., can you please explain why this is advantageous to USB data transfer even without the added locking feature?

Sorry for butting in.

If your question is about what’s the advantage of USB audio re-clocking.

AFAIK the USB audio samples are sent in bursts, and the rhythm of these bursts can have SQ effects. The idea of relocking is to smooth out these burts to reduce this negative SQ effect.

 

[BigDog]

Sorry for butting in.

If your question is about what’s the advantage of USB audio re-clocking.

AFAIK the USB audio samples are sent in bursts, and the rhythm of these bursts can have SQ effects. The idea of relocking is to smooth out these burts to reduce this negative SQ effect.

Thanks, Stephen. That makes sense and probably why using "playback from memory" is recommended where it is an option with the server software, e.g., JRiver, which now will load a whole album into memory for playback.

 

[Rune]

Thanks, Stephen. That makes sense and probably why using "playback from memory" is recommended where it is an option with the server software, e.g., JRiver, which now will load a whole album into memory for playback.

I am really not sure it makes sense to me. Why should it sound better caching the whole track than just buffering a few seconds.
To me this just sounds like snake oil or a way of covering up bad hardware design / streaming protocol.

 

[stephengrenfell]

I am really not sure it makes sense to me. Why should it sound better caching the whole track than just buffering a few seconds.
To me this just sounds like snake oil or a way of covering up bad hardware design / streaming protocol.

If the "playback from memory" is playback from memory in the renderer (aka DAC) then maybe it avoids the bursty effect of USB audio on SQ.

 

[Achim]

I am really not sure it makes sense to me. Why should it sound better caching the whole track than just buffering a few seconds.
To me this just sounds like snake oil or a way of covering up bad hardware design / streaming protocol.

Try a free demo of JPlay and hear for yourself the difference the respective settings for buffer size make.

 

[timola]

I tried Jriver some time ago and if its the buffer setting you are referring to, then this made no difference to my ears. The only side effect is, that if the buffer was set to several seconds when you changed tracks there was an annoying pause while the buffer filled up. I think about 500ms was enough to overcome my audiophile anxiety. I couldn't hear a SQ difference.

I'm not technical, but I thought re-clocking and clock locking was more what Stephen was saying, it ensures the ESS DAC chip can feed all its channels with greater synchronicity, so that conversion happens smoothly in all channels, hence less RF/interferences....but I'm way out on a limb of my knowledge here, probably talking nonsense now.

PS: I gave up on Jriver because it make loud clicking noises with my MDAC, so I'm with foobar2000 which is better to use than JRiver IMO.

 

[misterdog]

PS: I gave up on Jriver because it make loud clicking noises with my MDAC,

Whereas I found it fine.

Though I now use Lightning DS with my Aries Mini.
When a web based GUI like JRiver can control a streamer then I will be happy. (Lightning works on Open Home not UPNP )

I have lost the will to try this and that music app, volumio, Roon or whatever.

Lightning DS is fine,just needs a better (android) interface.

The biggest problem with all streamers is the software keeping up with all the changes in Android/Apple phones and PC's, all the 'updated' operating systems and Wi-Fi technology.

 

[JohanH]

Jriver and JPlay are totally different

 

[timola]

Jriver and JPlay are totally different

Just looked up Jplay .... looks cool..
http://jplay.eu/

99Euros is reasonable too; for a lifetime deal.