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MDAC First Listen (part 00110010)

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fusion5 said:
You did. But knowing the positive effect from my own LPSU, I would credit most of the improvent in SQ to the new output stage.
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Why did you not listen to the Fusion MDAC with the 5 rail LPSU ?

Surely this would have been a more like for like comparison..
 
misterdog said:
Why did you not listen to the Fusion MDAC with the 5 rail LPSU ?

Surely this would have been a more like for like comparison..
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Limited Time, but we did during Ian's visit where we originally listened to an MDAC with x3 Calexs - then to the "Rats nested" unit and the step was again huge and at the time we described the change as "just simply more" more of EVERYTHING - and this was conformed yet again during Michaels visit, I put forward the term "more" after we listened and it was in full agreement - just more of EVERYTHING - not a little piddly "audiophile change" but much much more! :) and that was compared against a Fusioned MDAC which is no slouch!
 
timola said:
1) Does John have two different models of Martin Logan electrostatics ... it seems to me that they shouldn't need extra subs as they have built in conventional coned bass woofer? (I've never used ESLs) ...and which subs?
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Regarding the Martin Logan Aeons:
If you look again at the first frequency response, you will be able to compare both channels. The left channel was with one of the REL Q200E subwoofers, the right channel without. The right channel is clearly lacking lower frequencies.

Regarding the Martin Logan CLS IIz:
I did a measurement without the subwoofers first:

johnw_cls.png


In the end it all depends on how much lower frequency response you desire.

timola said:
4) Does John really drink lots of Jim Beam?
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No, not that I know of. He does like JD/Coke, though. :cool:

timola said:
It's great to note that you heard a major step up in SQ going from the Fusion to the Superior...with more bass control being the main noticeable improvement....anything else? Also can you be honest and say whether you have a better setup than John? :D:D:D
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You got that wrong. The improvement in bass was noticed when adding the Detox to the Fusion MDAC. I'm pretty sure there's more to it, but unfortunately the system sounded so dull, I couldn't make out much more than that.

Now the Superior PCB brought improvement in all areas. By a large margin. But I'm unsure in what way the system's imperfections were influencing the results.

At the moment I might have the better setup. Listening to it reminded me more of the Superior MDAC playing at John's than the Fusion MDAC.
 
Paul,

If I would have to put the performance into numbers, it would look something like this:

Fusion MDAC + Detox: 100%

Superior MDAC + Detox + LPSU: 200% (or maybe even more?)
 
I hope there's a lot of development going on with headphones, because I'm struggling to believe the auditory insight on offer from johns listening room.
 
The human hearing is not so sensitive to Frequency domain, moving position or opening a door makes a big impact on measurements, but we don't really hear the change - our brain it seems is able to "correct" for such variations.

To be honest, I suspect most systems are not much better... with the ESL's we sit pretty much near field - well considering the size of the Speakers we sit about 2.5m away... the ESL's tower above us...

Time domain is far FAR more important - I don't give much credence to mild frequency response issues unless there are sharp High Q peaks / Nulls or the really serious roll-off such as we had with the failing Aeon ESL panels (but they where really bad)....

When I listen to designs I listen for sibilance, Sound stage, Bass Impact, resolution, "texture" and at the end of the day musical enjoyment etc... I have to listen "though" the systems weakness, I doubt few people have a "perfect" system so I prefer to listen in a more realistic environment then a "perfect" treated room. I work with Audio everyday so I have certain "queues" and traits I listen for that help me fine tune a design, when working with something everyday it invariably becomes second nature and you learn to cope with "local" variations in your known system...

Even with my current systems weakness, you could really hear what improvement the superior PCB brought, then that's all we need to know at this time :) - I know what we need to do next....

I HATE headphones, I CANNOT get on with there "soundstage" or lack of Bass feeling... They are Just awful IMO! I want my HiFi to sound like "being there" in the room with correct imaging etc - the CLS's do this well when sitting in that 10cm wide sweat spot!
 
JohnW,
Excellent news on the improvements of the Superior board over the Fusion!
Does this mean it has passed the tests and is now ready to become part of the Fdac?
What's next?

You definitely need the Vfets now ;)

Keep up the good work.
 
misterdog said:
John these are quiet, easy to use and will remove 8L.water/day.

https://www.homedehumidifiers.co.uk...2f7-q9y3nJ3iUJy-ywFHwS1OzGRFwbRkkCRoC4dPw_wcB
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The root problem is excessive electrical leakage of the aged ESL panels, while they work in a dry environment, for sure they are still down at HF and while a dehumidifier would help its does not solve the root problem - that I need to replace the panels :(

ML have a design issue with the Aeons (and I suspect many models of the same era) where there is a leakage path between the Diaphragm and front panel stator due to the need for an electrical connection to the Diaphragm which is sandwiched between the front stator.
 
I must say I was dead set on getting some ESLs next upgrade, but they seem quite fragile compared to conventional Loudspeakers?

Very much put off the Used market re ESLs in light of hearing this too 8-/

Are Magnaplanar Loudspeakers also as enviro-sensitive, does anyone know?

:)
 
ti33er said:
I must say I was dead set on getting some ESLs next upgrade, but they seem quite fragile compared to conventional Loudspeakers?

Very much put off the Used market re ESLs in light of hearing this too 8-/

Are Magnaplanar Loudspeakers also as enviro-sensitive, does anyone know?

:)
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I'd not say they are so bad, my Aeons are around 16 years old, they spent 8 years or so in China with 100% humidity most days, then 3 years sitting in a VERY damp basement with temps dropping below 0c during winter months...

The humidity issue I have with my panels is due to a design issue and age which has since been resolved... Personally I'd have no other speaker... I lived with box speakers for a few years only because I had no other choice and I regret how much of my life was lost listening to music without them :(
 
If you have DIY skills, ESLs can be rebuilt back to new standard for relatively little cost. In our UK climate you might only need to do this once in your listening lifetime, if at all. It's quite simple - they are the best ;-) Treat them with respect and they'll give you years of great service.

Without replacing the expensive bits you can't do this with dynamic speakers.
 
Rjpcardoso said:
JohnW,
Excellent news on the improvements of the Superior board over the Fusion!
Does this mean it has passed the tests and is now ready to become part of the Fdac?
What's next?

You definitely need the Vfets now ;)

Keep up the good work.
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Thanks Richard - its indeed good to have some confirmation after so many years of development, Detox and the Superior results all point to the FDAC going to be stunning.

Next we will connect the XMOS Development board with its Dual ESS DAC's and the superior board - again closer to the FDAC configuration and also as an "early days" listen to the FDACLite which will be a Morph of the two PCB's :)
 
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