Cereal Killer
432
jugs and speakers uuummmmm, wobbly cones.....
Lyngdorf's TDAI2200+RP/CD1 & Wilson Benesch Arcs.
- Thread starter Cereal Killer
- Start date
jugs and speakers uuummmmm, wobbly cones.....
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
look, just leave my wife out of this.....
Cereal Killer
432
im happy with my wifes woofers; but thanks for the offer 
Cereal Killer
432
following on from lindsay's request, if theres any more local people who want a listen i'll try arrange a date to suite a few. could be a mini bake-off!
Rob Sinden
Registered user
Hi
Here a couple of experiences Ive had recently that illustrate how much of an impact the room has on audio systems, how some of these problems can be measured and how RoomPerfect helps address them.
Yesterday I went to What HiFi to drop off a Lyngdorf 2.2 system and an additional Lyngdorf TDAi2200 true digital amplifier with RoomPerfect.
Initially we set the 2.2 system in the large room that they usually reserve for home cinema reviews. The rooms walls were largely covered in an acoustic treatment that was designed to reduce the rooms reverberation time. The treatment was very effective at reducing reverb time but left the room sounding slightly dead and unnatural.
In this room the effect of the RoomPerfect was to stop the boominess that was present without the use of the room correction. Although the room was larger than most peoples living rooms (about 6 x 8m), any full range speaker system used in this sort of space would usually give variations of around 15db due to room modes and cancellations. Switching the RoomPerfect on and off stopped the bass sounding bloated and made the instruments more life like while percussion sounded faster and more solid.
Next we set the TDAi2200 with RoomPerfect up in an untreated, smaller room (about 3.5 x 4.5m). This room had much more natural acoustics and was typically used for reviewing home theatre in a box set ups.
The speakers used in here were a pair of stand mount ATCs that retail for £850. Ive not heard ATCs before and they are without doubt the best conventional hifi speaker Ive heard in years, easily outperforming far more expensive floor standing speakers I have recently heard.
In this room, with these speakers the bass disappeared without the room correction bring used. The seating position had to be 2/3 rds down the length of the room and this puts the listener in a very obvious null that you would expect to dramatically reduce some bass frequencies.
I have just bought a £150 measurement kit from XTZ that is very simple to use. Having tested a system in our very carefully designed listening room, the software shows there are no room modes. Well be doing some more in depth measurements soon but obviously this suggests that the money spent on the design and construction of this room has been well spent.
I am presently using a pair of Dali Helicon 800s in my living room. My home is an old cottage and the living room is 5 x 6 x 2m. The speaker have to be placed too close to the rear wall as they are next to a door way. I think this is a fairly typical problem.
In this space without the room correction the speakers boom (as you would expect) and the imaging sounds a little hollow. With RoomPerfect the music sound more natural, the imaging is better but not perfect and overall the system is simply more balanced.
I will try and measure the systems in room response and post the findings shortly to illustrate the problem and the effects of the room correction.
If you want to see just how big a problem your rooms acoustics are, the XTZ software can be purchase here: http://www.xtz.se/produkt.php?allmant=true&produkt=41&eng=true
Heres a review from someone who has used this tool.
http://www.homecinemacentral.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2160
The site also has some very useful clear guidance about the problems that rooms create here: http://www.xtz.se/omxtz.php?sida=2&eng=true
Here a couple of experiences Ive had recently that illustrate how much of an impact the room has on audio systems, how some of these problems can be measured and how RoomPerfect helps address them.
Yesterday I went to What HiFi to drop off a Lyngdorf 2.2 system and an additional Lyngdorf TDAi2200 true digital amplifier with RoomPerfect.
Initially we set the 2.2 system in the large room that they usually reserve for home cinema reviews. The rooms walls were largely covered in an acoustic treatment that was designed to reduce the rooms reverberation time. The treatment was very effective at reducing reverb time but left the room sounding slightly dead and unnatural.
In this room the effect of the RoomPerfect was to stop the boominess that was present without the use of the room correction. Although the room was larger than most peoples living rooms (about 6 x 8m), any full range speaker system used in this sort of space would usually give variations of around 15db due to room modes and cancellations. Switching the RoomPerfect on and off stopped the bass sounding bloated and made the instruments more life like while percussion sounded faster and more solid.
Next we set the TDAi2200 with RoomPerfect up in an untreated, smaller room (about 3.5 x 4.5m). This room had much more natural acoustics and was typically used for reviewing home theatre in a box set ups.
The speakers used in here were a pair of stand mount ATCs that retail for £850. Ive not heard ATCs before and they are without doubt the best conventional hifi speaker Ive heard in years, easily outperforming far more expensive floor standing speakers I have recently heard.
In this room, with these speakers the bass disappeared without the room correction bring used. The seating position had to be 2/3 rds down the length of the room and this puts the listener in a very obvious null that you would expect to dramatically reduce some bass frequencies.
I have just bought a £150 measurement kit from XTZ that is very simple to use. Having tested a system in our very carefully designed listening room, the software shows there are no room modes. Well be doing some more in depth measurements soon but obviously this suggests that the money spent on the design and construction of this room has been well spent.
I am presently using a pair of Dali Helicon 800s in my living room. My home is an old cottage and the living room is 5 x 6 x 2m. The speaker have to be placed too close to the rear wall as they are next to a door way. I think this is a fairly typical problem.
In this space without the room correction the speakers boom (as you would expect) and the imaging sounds a little hollow. With RoomPerfect the music sound more natural, the imaging is better but not perfect and overall the system is simply more balanced.
I will try and measure the systems in room response and post the findings shortly to illustrate the problem and the effects of the room correction.
If you want to see just how big a problem your rooms acoustics are, the XTZ software can be purchase here: http://www.xtz.se/produkt.php?allmant=true&produkt=41&eng=true
Heres a review from someone who has used this tool.
http://www.homecinemacentral.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2160
The site also has some very useful clear guidance about the problems that rooms create here: http://www.xtz.se/omxtz.php?sida=2&eng=true
Space is the Place
pfm Member
Rob i dont understand why you didnt use the Lyngdorf ATB/DSP measurement on the TDAI2200? you can use the ATB to measure the room with the TDAI, you dont need to buy the XTZ system. I think it is available from Yahoo groups.
measurement from ATB software, then apply correction in DSP
measurement from ATB software, then apply correction in DSP
Cereal Killer
432
huge speakers cant really alter room issues IMHO... i did have some 12" tannoys 20 years or so ago but since never owned anything above 8". might look at some floor standing speakers next but i do really enjoy the speed and articulation very high quality standmounts give.
Joe P
Memory Alpha incarnate | mod; Shatner number = 2
Neil,
Do you listen in nearfield? That's what I'm doing and I calculate that it gives me 89% room knowledge* and 37% room correction.**
Joe
*, ** -- entirely made-up numbers, but listening in the nearfield position has effectively taken the room out of the equation for me, at least for the mids and highs. The bass luckily integrates well with room nodes, so no major problem there.
Do you listen in nearfield? That's what I'm doing and I calculate that it gives me 89% room knowledge* and 37% room correction.**
Joe
*, ** -- entirely made-up numbers, but listening in the nearfield position has effectively taken the room out of the equation for me, at least for the mids and highs. The bass luckily integrates well with room nodes, so no major problem there.
NeilR
pfm Member
Actually, I think the problem is more to do with the fashion for small speakers with reflex port loading tuned between 50-100hz to give the illusion of bass.
small floorstanders are just as bad. Horrible things the lot of them. They probably all need some kind of room correction to sound halfway decent.
Big, properly designed monitor like speakers just don't really set off room nodes and sound far better in most rooms.
NeilR
pfm Member
Joe,
I listen about 3m away, quite near the back wall. The speakers are about 3ft into the room. as you'd expect with studio monitors, they have very inert cabinets and I have no bass bloat or bass bloom, just very fast, tight bass down to 25hz or so in room. Oh, and very articulate mid and treble too! best of all worlds really. All for £300! Lucky me!
I listen about 3m away, quite near the back wall. The speakers are about 3ft into the room. as you'd expect with studio monitors, they have very inert cabinets and I have no bass bloat or bass bloom, just very fast, tight bass down to 25hz or so in room. Oh, and very articulate mid and treble too! best of all worlds really. All for £300! Lucky me!
rbrown
I think therefore I think I am
Hi Spacey and sorry for the late reply. I'm using a 52/super/olive 250 with great results.
Rich
Cereal Killer
432
nice system rich, i think we may have discussed this when i got my arcs...if you get the chance try the tdai/cd1 with the Arcs it really does make them shine.
Cereal Killer
432
i would like to try some full range speakers next but not with massive cones. this way i'm hoping to get the best of both. maybe try the 2.2 theory too.
Cereal Killer
432
the SDA is a softer sounding amp to the TDA. they have both also been updated to 'I' status in the last few years.
Yes, and nothing has changed but the "I" on the case. There is no internal update, only cosmetic.
And I didn't find the SDAI 2175 soft sounding - it was rather the opposite.